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  #1  
Unread 03-05-2018, 08:50 AM
ovahdryve ovahdryve is offline
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Default Should I bulk or cut after a 6 week layoff?

TL;DR: Barely trained for ~6 weeks. Went up from 12% body fat > ~18% and lost a bit of size (maybe 10%, nothing major but I can notice it...) but more so strength to be honest (80kg feels like 100kg now ). I want to lose the fat and get the muscle back I lost (and strength I guess) - I believe I can recomp? I trust in muscle memory. If so, shall I go to maintenance or a deficit to do so?

Sup guys. Been going through a bit of a crap time mentally to be honest with you all, I moved abroad for a few months and I have barely trained at all - about 4 times in 2 months but my diets been awful (been in a surplus every day) and definitely have missed out on hitting my protein requirements at least 30-40% of the time.

I don't look like I lost TOO much size (maybe I've lost like, 10% of my size, it's not HUGELY noticable, probably only to me) but I've gone up from about 12% body fat to probably, I don't know, I'm gonna say 18%.

I REALLY want to get rid of this fat so I'm thinking to cut first but then again, if I'm in a deficit I worry I won't get any of the size back so maybe it's better to go back up to maintenance or something for 2 weeks to get back some size and strength and THEN cut?

I just watched a Jeff Nippard video (personally I think he's one of the most credible fitness YouTubers) and he says that because of 'muscle memory' (layman term) I could recomp but I'm not sure if he meant in a deficit or surplus?

Last edited by ovahdryve : 03-05-2018 at 09:27 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 03-05-2018, 09:58 AM
alaloum alaloum is offline
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Muscle memory is an actual thing, yes. So, if you believe that you will gain any muscle lost quite fast once you get back to lifting, why would it HAVE to be a NOW during a recomp? It will take you quite some time to lower your bodyfat if you recomp at 18%. I mean, since you are not a complete beginner.

I would go for a cut. I believe if you don't go too low in calories, with adequate protein and proper lifting routine you could regain any muscle lost even during your cut. If not, you'll get it back soon enough anyway but you will already be at a better place bodyfat wise.

Fwiw this is from personal experience. I take a couple months off the gym quite regularly, eat at maintenance/above and never lose strength/muscle. Idoubt you lost much if at all to be honest, it may feel like that because your muscles are less visible bc of the higher bodyfat

Edit: I don't know who Jeff is but I'd bet he meant in a deficit. A surplus at 18% would be fulking aka fat bulking
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  #3  
Unread 03-05-2018, 10:20 AM
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zLeeKo zLeeKo is offline
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Neither IMO.

Eat at maintenance and take some time to go back where you left off and re-adapt.

Read about how to properly do it here: https://bodyrecomposition.com/traini...ayoff-qa.html/

After that, you can cut, because your BF% is too high for bulking.
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Unread 03-05-2018, 10:32 AM
ovahdryve ovahdryve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alaloum View Post
Muscle memory is an actual thing, yes. So, if you believe that you will gain any muscle lost quite fast once you get back to lifting, why would it HAVE to be a NOW during a recomp? It will take you quite some time to lower your bodyfat if you recomp at 18%. I mean, since you are not a complete beginner.

I would go for a cut. I believe if you don't go too low in calories, with adequate protein and proper lifting routine you could regain any muscle lost even during your cut. If not, you'll get it back soon enough anyway but you will already be at a better place bodyfat wise.

Fwiw this is from personal experience. I take a couple months off the gym quite regularly, eat at maintenance/above and never lose strength/muscle. Idoubt you lost much if at all to be honest, it may feel like that because your muscles are less visible bc of the higher bodyfat

Edit: I don't know who Jeff is but I'd bet he meant in a deficit. A surplus at 18% would be fulking aka fat bulking
Thanks. To be honest I want to go into a big deficit of at least -1000kcal. I never really lose much strength and size at all on my cuts to be honest with you so I'm not worried about losing more muscle, moreso will I be able to get back that 10-15% I lose on a big deficit...

So my question, do you know for sure if a big deficit will effect that rather than moderate? I guess if anything I can start moderate anyway and then increase it. Yeah i'll probably do that (talking out loud here).

Quote:
Originally Posted by zLeeKo View Post
Neither IMO.

Eat at maintenance and take some time to go back where you left off and re-adapt.

Read about how to properly do it here: https://bodyrecomposition.com/traini...ayoff-qa.html/

After that, you can cut, because your BF% is too high for bulking.
Thanks mate but I already read that and didn't see if Lyle mentioned anything about deficits or surplus. Guy above says I can get back what I lost on a small cut long as it's not too severe. Would rather do that than maintenance as at least it would kick start some fat loss process...

Do you really advise against that in your opinion or should there not be too much in it.

To be honest 3 years ago when I took a whole year off the gym and was fat as I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post. and couldn't even do 2 pull ups, I just ate 1800 cals and I put on a lot of muscle too and that was for about 6 months but then again that was after a whole year of the gym.

Balls I'm not sure.
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  #5  
Unread 03-05-2018, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovahdryve View Post



Thanks mate but I already read that and didn't see if Lyle mentioned anything about deficits or surplus. Guy above says I can get back what I lost on a small cut long as it's not too severe. Would rather do that than maintenance as at least it would kick start some fat loss process...

Do you really advise against that in your opinion or should there not be too much in it.

To be honest 3 years ago when I took a whole year off the gym and was fat as I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post.I need to read the rules post. and couldn't even do 2 pull ups, I just ate 1800 cals and I put on a lot of muscle too and that was for about 6 months but then again that was after a whole year of the gym.

Balls I'm not sure.
Well, look, you were probably beginner then, I guess, so you were able to recomp. What's your training status now? If it's past the beginner stage, I wouldn't recomp.

I would eat at maintenance, take some time to go back where I was and then go for a cut.

Why?

In 6 weeks you lost some strength, there's no question, both neural and actual muscle. So you're now lifting less than you used to. And going straight to deficit while dropping the weight from the bar is a beautiful way to lose some more muscles.
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Unread 03-05-2018, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alaloum View Post
Muscle memory is an actual thing, yes. So, if you believe that you will gain any muscle lost quite fast once you get back to lifting, why would it HAVE to be a NOW during a recomp? It will take you quite some time to lower your bodyfat if you recomp at 18%. I mean, since you are not a complete beginner.

I would go for a cut. I believe if you don't go too low in calories, with adequate protein and proper lifting routine you could regain any muscle lost even during your cut. If not, you'll get it back soon enough anyway but you will already be at a better place bodyfat wise.

Fwiw this is from personal experience. I take a couple months off the gym quite regularly, eat at maintenance/above and never lose strength/muscle. Idoubt you lost much if at all to be honest, it may feel like that because your muscles are less visible bc of the higher bodyfat

Edit: I don't know who Jeff is but I'd bet he meant in a deficit. A surplus at 18% would be fulking aka fat bulking
Well...

You're probably a smaller woman with low amount of muscle mass, so that's possibly the reason why you don't lose strength/muscle after couple of months.

Average male who is decently trained is going to lose strength/muscle after such long period.

And why would he bother with small deficit, when he can just take some time to readapt, relearn the technique so he doesn't injure himself and then do a normal, moderate/agressive cut.

Jeff is smart guy, look him up.
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  #7  
Unread 03-05-2018, 04:18 PM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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You should return to training before you worry about anything else
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Unread 03-06-2018, 12:40 AM
alaloum alaloum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zLeeKo View Post
Well...

You're probably a smaller woman with low amount of muscle mass, so that's possibly the reason why you don't lose strength/muscle after couple of months.

Average male who is decently trained is going to lose strength/muscle after such long period.

And why would he bother with small deficit, when he can just take some time to readapt, relearn the technique so he doesn't injure himself and then do a normal, moderate/agressive cut.

Jeff is smart guy, look him up.
I didn't even think about maintenance, I think the last question about deficit vs surplus was what stuck on my mind. Deficit/maintenance, up to him after the answers he got but def not a surplus.

Btw what difference does gender/amount of muscle mass make regarding muscle loss/retention during a layoff? Not disagreeing, honestly ignorant about that. Besides my experience, seeing people maintaining strength even at half the recommended protein intake (not for really long time, just certain periods) gave me the impression that sometimes we end up worrying about muscle loss more than we need to
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Last edited by alaloum : 03-06-2018 at 12:47 AM.
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  #9  
Unread 03-06-2018, 12:54 AM
alaloum alaloum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovahdryve View Post
Thanks. To be honest I want to go into a big deficit of at least -1000kcal

So my question, do you know for sure if a big deficit will effect that rather than moderate? I guess if anything I can start moderate anyway and then increase it. Yeah i'll probably do that (talking out loud here).
There's always a bigger difficulty in maintaining muscle the bigger the deficit is. Of course I can't know for sure, it's a very individual thing and depends on your protein intake and lifting routine.

You can start moderate and go from there, or maintenance for a bit and then start decreasing calories, trial and error. You know your body best.
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  #10  
Unread 03-06-2018, 04:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alaloum View Post
I didn't even think about maintenance, I think the last question about deficit vs surplus was what stuck on my mind. Deficit/maintenance, up to him after the answers he got but def not a surplus.

Btw what difference does gender/amount of muscle mass make regarding muscle loss/retention during a layoff? Not disagreeing, honestly ignorant about that. Besides my experience, seeing people maintaining strength even at half the recommended protein intake (not for really long time, just certain periods) gave me the impression that sometimes we end up worrying about muscle loss more than we need to
It's just my speculation. Probably a training status plays a role too.

As nearly advanced lifter, even after 2 weeks, I lose some strength, probably just neural adaptations and maybe some water/glycogen loss, and it takes me a month to get back where I started. It's basically my current situation. I
could possibly regain it in 1-2 weeks but at risk of injury. So I just take a good month, back cycle, ramp up and all is good and safe.

In a couple of months (like in your example) I would lose significant amount of strength/muscle.
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