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  #21  
Unread 03-23-2010, 07:21 PM
mrlakramondas's Avatar
mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
That's pretty much exactly how I'd set up a chest/delts/triceps day (I might make the flyes inline for upper pecs but that's minutiae). By the time you add up the total rep count and figure in overlap, it's golden. Everything is hit for sufficient total volume, nothing is impaired due to overlap, everything can be progressed.

The back equivalent is
Midback: 4X6-8
Pullovers (if you have a machine): 2Xwhatever
rear delt: 2-3 sets (gets hit by midback)
biceps: 2 sets

Or switch lats and midback (but make one a shrugback or down). Back is a touch more complicated but it's the same basic concept.
yeah, he has gotten really good results. i did the same with leg and pull days (removing alot of overlap). the hardest thing has been convincing him that it will be enough. but i think he agrees now...

back (pull) day looks like this:

chins 4x6 (weighted)
db rows 3x8 (i wanted him to underhand barbell rows but he doesn't like that exercise)
medium grip rows to the chest 1x8
db curls 3x8
one forearm exercise 1x12
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  #22  
Unread 03-23-2010, 07:39 PM
Vic Mackey Vic Mackey is offline
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I'm more confused than ever.

You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
...But the overhead work has to come first in the workout. And no way are you doing compound chest work after it with anything but trivial weights...
But in the generic bulk template you say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
...Upper
Flat bench: 3-4X6-8/3'
Row: 3-4X6-8/3'
Incline bench or shoulder press: 2-3X10-12/2'
Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12/2'
Triceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5'
Biceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5'...
So based on this, you can do flat bench and (after doing a row) THAN you can do an OHP. But in the above quote you said otherwise. Maybe I understood it wrong. Did you mean you can't do OHP RIGHT AFTER flat bench but you can do flat bench, than a row, THAN an OHP?

Would this be suitable?:

Day 1 Upper

1. Flat dumbbell bench press
2. Neutral grip seated machine rows
3. Seated dumbbell shoulder press
4. Wide grip lat pulldowns to the front
5. Seated dumbbell lateral raises

Day 2 Lower

1. Sled hack squat machine
2. Lying leg curls
3. Standing calve raises
4. Seated crunch machine

After this workout cycle gets completed, I will than do this next workout cycle for 6 weeks (again, 2 weeks submax runup and 4 weeks of heavy lifting):

Day 1 Upper

1. Flat dumbbell bench press
2. Neutral grip seated machine rows
3. Low incline dumbbell bench press
4. Wide grip lat pulldowns to the front
5. Seated dumbbell lateral raises

Day 2 Lower (this lower day is same as the lower day in the first cycle)

1. Sled hack squat machine
2. Lying leg curls
3. Standing calve raises
4. Seated crunch machine

So basically the only thing I will be switching every cycle (for now) is seated dumbbell shoulder press and low incline dumbbell bench press.

Flame away fellas. I'm ready for it

Last edited by Vic Mackey : 03-23-2010 at 07:45 PM.
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  #23  
Unread 03-23-2010, 07:43 PM
mrlakramondas's Avatar
mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Mackey View Post
I'm more confused than ever.

You said:



But in the generic bulk template you say:



So based on this, you can do flat bench and (after doing a row) THAN you can do an OHP. But in the above quote you said otherwise. Maybe I understood it wrong. Did you mean you can't do OHP RIGHT AFTER flat bench but you can do flat bench than a rwo and THAN an OHP?

Would this be suitable?:

Day 1

Day 1 Upper

1. Flat dumbbell bench press
2. Neutral grip seated machine rows
3. Seated dumbbell shoulder press
4. Wide grip lat pulldowns to the front
5. Seated dumbbell lateral raises

Day 2 Lower

1. Sled hack squat machine
2. Lying leg curls
3. Standing calve raises
4. Seated crunch machine

After this workout cycle gets completed, I will than do this next workout cycle for 6 weeks (again, 2 weeks submax runup and 4 weeks of heavy lifting):

Day 1 Upper

1. Flat dumbbell bench press
2. Neutral grip seated machine rows
3. Low incline dumbbell bench press
4. Wide grip lat pulldowns to the front
5. Seated dumbbell lateral raises

Day 2 Lower (this lower day is same as the lower day in the first cycle)

1. Sled hack squat machine
2. Lying leg curls
3. Standing calve raises
4. Seated crunch machine

So basically the only thing I will be switching every cycle (for now) is seated dumbbell shoulder press and low incline dumbbell bench press.

Flame away fellas. I'm ready for it
yes. considering what you have said about your injuries and equipment limitations (but i donno maybe there are other exercise you can do such as split squats, glute ham raises..don't know enough about you.). but like i said before i would add some direct biceps and triceps work. 2-3x8-12...could be added on lower body day. and hyperextensions if possible.
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  #24  
Unread 03-23-2010, 07:50 PM
Vic Mackey Vic Mackey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
yes. considering what you have said about your injuries and equipment limitations (but i donno maybe there are other exercise you can do such as split squats, glute ham raises..don't know enough about you.). but like i said before i would add some direct biceps and triceps work. 2-3x8-12...could be added on lower body day. and hyperextensions if possible.
OK:

Day 1 Upper

1. Flat dumbbell bench press
2. Neutral grip seated machine rows
3. Seated dumbbell shoulder press
4. Wide grip lat pulldowns to the front
5. Seated dumbbell lateral raises
6. Tricep pushdowns 1 set
7. Seated dumbbell curls 1 set

= 17 total sets

Day 2 Lower

1. Sled hack squat machine
2. Lying leg curls
3. Standing calve raises
4. Seated crunch machine

= 12 total sets

After this workout cycle gets completed, I will than do this next workout cycle for 6 weeks (again, 2 weeks submax runup and 4 weeks of heavy lifting):

Day 1 Upper

1. Flat dumbbell bench press
2. Neutral grip seated machine rows
3. Low incline dumbbell bench press
4. Wide grip lat pulldowns to the front
5. Seated dumbbell lateral raises
6. Tricep pushdowns 1 set
7. Seated dumbbell curls 1 set

= 17 total sets

Day 2 Lower (this lower day is the same as the lower day in the first cycle)

1. Sled hack squat machine
2. Lying leg curls
3. Standing calve raises
4. Seated crunch machine

= 12 total sets

Any better?
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  #25  
Unread 03-23-2010, 07:57 PM
mrlakramondas's Avatar
mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Mackey View Post
OK:

Day 1 Upper

1. Flat dumbbell bench press
2. Neutral grip seated machine rows
3. Seated dumbbell shoulder press
4. Wide grip lat pulldowns to the front
5. Seated dumbbell lateral raises
6. Tricep pushdowns 1 set
7. Seated dumbbell curls 1 set

= 17 total sets

Day 2 Lower

1. Sled hack squat machine
2. Lying leg curls
3. Standing calve raises
4. Seated crunch machine

= 12 total sets

After this workout cycle gets completed, I will than do this next workout cycle for 6 weeks (again, 2 weeks submax runup and 4 weeks of heavy lifting):

Day 1 Upper

1. Flat dumbbell bench press
2. Neutral grip seated machine rows
3. Low incline dumbbell bench press
4. Wide grip lat pulldowns to the front
5. Seated dumbbell lateral raises
6. Tricep pushdowns 1 set
7. Seated dumbbell curls 1 set

= 17 total sets

Day 2 Lower (this lower day is the same as the lower day in the first cycle)

1. Sled hack squat machine
2. Lying leg curls
3. Standing calve raises
4. Seated crunch machine

= 12 total sets

Any better?
you are stubborn but yeah considering what you have told us i think that looks ok. the reason i would add arms to the leg workout is because the leg workout is pretty short + arms recover quickly + you saying that your elbows dont like tricep work after compound pressing.
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  #26  
Unread 03-23-2010, 08:00 PM
jjc jjc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
the reason i would add arms to the leg workout is because the leg workout is pretty short + arms recover quickly + you saying that your elbows dont like tricep work after compound pressing.
Just make sure you don't do any deadlifting/heavy back work a day after killing your forearms. I made that mistake a few weeks ago.
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  #27  
Unread 03-23-2010, 08:02 PM
Vic Mackey Vic Mackey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
you are stubborn
ExPro78 is a very good friend of mine. I think he would agree with you

Seriously though, thanks for all your generous help mrlakramondas. I mean that.
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  #28  
Unread 03-23-2010, 08:03 PM
mrlakramondas's Avatar
mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjc View Post
Just make sure you don't do any deadlifting/heavy back work a day after killing your forearms. I made that mistake a few weeks ago.
yes, i wouldn't recommend it if he was doing 4 workouts per week (with back to back workouts). but he is doing ABA-BAB...3 days a week with a rest day between workouts.
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  #29  
Unread 03-23-2010, 08:19 PM
Vic Mackey Vic Mackey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
...so doing shoulder pressing isn't a must for shoulder growth...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
if i could only chose one shoulder exercise it would be side raises (front delts get hit plenty by chest pressing). i have done very heavy overhead pressing but focusing on side raises did much more for my shoulders than overhead pressing ever did...
Before I go to bed, one last question:

Day 1 Upper

1. Flat dumbbell bench press
2. Neutral grip seated machine rows
3. Low incline dumbbell bench press
4. Wide grip lat pulldowns to the front
5. Seated dumbbell lateral raises
6. Tricep pushdowns 1 set
7. Seated dumbbell curls 1 set

So according to what you said above (the quotes) by doing this upper body cycle I will be sufficiently working my side delts even though I will be doing NO shoulder pressing (instead doing low incline dumbbell bench press ). Did I get that right?

I really have to go to a recovering bro support group. Because I was always told "Bro forget about side raises, they're useless. Overhead pressing is what REALLY builds your side delts bro.". But you seem to say the opposite. Could you really build your side delts by not doing ANY overhead pressing and JUST doing side raises?
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  #30  
Unread 02-25-2013, 01:15 AM
slave2getFIT slave2getFIT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
True. But in the context of an upper workout, heavy chest work makes OHP worthless. better to side raise.
^ wanted to bump this.. Found this interesting. So, if heavy benching or incline pressing, doing OHP afterwards is really useless? So just stickin to lateral raises, and rear delt work following chest work would actually be more beneficial in terms of building your chest and delts, correct?

And, if this is true, what would be considered heavy chest work? 2 pressing movements? Say, bench and Incline? What, if for example there was benching followed by an isolation movement like flys, would side laterals still be more appropriate then OHP?
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