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  #1  
Unread 04-25-2014, 05:17 AM
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Dean407 Dean407 is offline
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Question Low testosterone...how much of a factor?

In finding a new family doctor I had a physical with labs which I haven't had done in 3 years. I'm 43yrs old. I asked him to throw in Testosterone and he did.

Well, my first lab came back at 315. I just had another lab and the result was 340. Both were early AM blood labs. Here are other noteworthy labs:

Testosterone Free (6.8 - 21.5 pg/mL) 12.4
ESTRADIOL (7.6 - 42.6 pg/mL) 32.8
PROLACTIN (4.0 - 15.2 ng/mL) 12.4
FSH (1.5 - 12.4 mIU/mL) 12.1
LH (1.7 - 8.6 mIU/mL) 8.1
PSA Serum 0.0 - 4.0 ng/mL 4.1

As an FYI I had testicular cancer and lost a testical. It doesn't look like the one I have is doing a very good job.

So, how much of a factor is having my Testosterone at such low levels regarding working out? I noticed the last couple years that my time to recover from workouts has increased dramatically despite having a very good clean diet with mild calorie surplus and plenty of protein.

Does Testosterone effect recovery levels for endurance as well?

I feel as if my efforts to eat clean and exercise are wasted to a large degree due to my testosterone being low. It's depressing.
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  #2  
Unread 04-25-2014, 05:29 AM
Artie Artie is offline
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Testosterone plays a great role in the muscle building, that's why older guys can't gain as a teenagers. It's affect endurance as well, elite runners taking testosterone. Consider TRT and you will feel better. But your testosterone is not such low, anyway you will feel better with TRT in terms of well-being.
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  #3  
Unread 04-25-2014, 05:50 AM
FredBlogg FredBlogg is offline
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Simply put, a low testosterone level will knock your !@#$% into the dirt. It affects everything from libido, to strength, to endurance, to sleep, and to general energy levels.

The so called "normal" range for T is 260 -1080 ng/dl. Generally, I feel pretty darn good at 500, somewhat lethargic when I am under 400, very lethargic under 300, and like dog doodoo under 260. (I am struggling now to get mine over 260 for a longer period than a couple of hours. Meh!)

My opinion, which is totally without value, is that T supplements are warranted for you. Your levels are on the low end of normal; you have lost half of your supporting cast; and you are reporting physical effects in terms of recovery.

Your challenge is that whilst your levels are low, they are still in the normal range. You will need to find a physician who is comfortable with your levels being above subsistance.

It amazes me that veternarians are quicker to worry about quality of life than endochronologists!

BTW, in grad school I studied with a guy that lost both testes to cancer. He was able to maintain perfectly average T levels with supplementation. Based on his wife, this seems to be attractive to extremely hot women!

Lastly, there are enough inter-hormonal processes going on in the human body to give one a headache sorting them out. Your PSA is a bit out of range. Besides being over 40, hormone supplements can affect the PSA, so you need to keep an eye on it. Actually, that applies to anyone.

Good luck!
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Unread 04-25-2014, 06:53 AM
noah_k noah_k is offline
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I think in a truly deficient individual it's the difference between night and day and there is absolutely no strong enough reason to abstain. That said, you are a bit above or below what a lot of endos consider the border, but I'd still advise finding an endo that will prescribe you. Take solace in this fact, don't see it as wasted time. It's well known those below your levels have done so and continue to do so. I think you'd still be able to make some decent progress so far, and the habits learned are surely not for nothing. But TRT will set things right, and in fact give you an advantage over plenty of your peers with naturally declining test

Here's an excerpt from the book on illicit compounds, Anabolics 10th ed by William Llewleyn

Quote:
The most common complaints associated with low testosterone in adult men include reduced libido, erectile dysfunction, loss of energy, decreased strength and/or endurance, reduced ability to play sports, mood fluctuations, reduced height (bone loss), reduced work performance, memory loss, and muscle loss. When associated with aging, these symptoms are collectively placed under the label of “andropause”. In a clinical setting this disorder is referred to as late-onset hypogonadism. Blood testosterone levels below 350ng/dL are usually regarded as clinically significant, although some physicians will use a level as low as 200ng/dL as the threshold for normal. Hypogonadism is, unfortunately, still widely underdiagnosed. Most physicians will also not recommend treatment for low testosterone unless a patient is complaining about symptoms (symptomatic androgen deficiency).

Androgen replacement therapy effectively alleviates most symptoms of low testosterone levels. To begin with, raising testosterone levels above 350ng/dL (the very low end of the normal range) will often restore normal sexual function and libido in men with dysfunctions related to hormone insufficiency. With regard to bone mineral density, hormone replacement therapy is also documented to have a significant positive effect. For example, studies administering 250 mg of testosterone enanthate every 21 days showed a 5% increase in bone mineral density after six months. Over time this may prevent some loss of height and bone strength with aging, and may also reduce the risk of fracture. Hormone replacement therapy also increases red blood cell concentrations (oxygen carrying capacity), improving energy and sense of well-being.Therapy also supports the retention of lean body mass, and improves muscle strength and endurance.

Unlike steroid abuse, hormone replacement therapy may have benefits with regard to cardiovascular disease risk. For example, studies tend to show hormone replacement as having a positive effect on serum lipids. This includes a reduction in LDL and total cholesterol levels, combined with no significant change in HDL (good) cholesterol levels. Testosterone supplementation also reduces midsection obesity, and improves insulin sensitivity and glycemic control. These are important factors in metabolic syndrome, which may also be involved in the progression of atherosclerosis. Additionally, testosterone replacement therapy has been shown to improve the profile of inflammatory markers TNFˇ, IL-1‚ and IL-10.55 The reduced inflammation may help protect arterial walls from degeneration by plaque and scar tissue. The medical consensus today appears to be that replacement therapy in otherwise healthy men generally does not have a negative effect on cardiovascular disease risk, and may actually decrease certain risk factors for the disease in some patients.
Best of luck and congrats on beating cancer

Last edited by noah_k : 04-25-2014 at 06:57 AM.
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  #5  
Unread 04-25-2014, 07:28 PM
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Dean407 Dean407 is offline
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I researched TRT quite a bit. Just wanted a possible different point of view from this site. I actually have many of the typical symptoms of low test...and have had them a few years, at least.
Instead of calling the Doctor's office like they asked I dropped in. I only saw the secretary and she had several Urologist offices for me to call.

So, I called all three Urologist offices and the first one they wanted me to see didn't have an appointment until MID JULY.

Another was closed for today. The last one had an appointment available on June 2nd. I called the Doc's office and asked if they had any other Urologist offices to recommend...I didn't mind driving. She'll get back to me on Monday.

So, it seems to me he is dumping me on a Urologist given my higher PSA results. My Father's PSA has been in the teens through the 30's for about 15yrs. Had 4 biopsies and no cancer.

The receptionist said that it's pretty normal for specialist offices to be booked a month+ out. This sucks.
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  #6  
Unread 04-25-2014, 08:00 PM
tendency tendency is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean407 View Post
In finding a new family doctor I had a physical with labs which I haven't had done in 3 years. I'm 43yrs old. I asked him to throw in Testosterone and he did.

Well, my first lab came back at 315. I just had another lab and the result was 340. Both were early AM blood labs. Here are other noteworthy labs:

Testosterone Free (6.8 - 21.5 pg/mL) 12.4
ESTRADIOL (7.6 - 42.6 pg/mL) 32.8
PROLACTIN (4.0 - 15.2 ng/mL) 12.4
FSH (1.5 - 12.4 mIU/mL) 12.1
LH (1.7 - 8.6 mIU/mL) 8.1
PSA Serum 0.0 - 4.0 ng/mL 4.1

As an FYI I had testicular cancer and lost a testical. It doesn't look like the one I have is doing a very good job.

So, how much of a factor is having my Testosterone at such low levels regarding working out? I noticed the last couple years that my time to recover from workouts has increased dramatically despite having a very good clean diet with mild calorie surplus and plenty of protein.

Does Testosterone effect recovery levels for endurance as well?

I feel as if my efforts to eat clean and exercise are wasted to a large degree due to my testosterone being low. It's depressing.
im on TRT have been for 7 years my advice is forget what the T result numbers say, for the moment, and focus on how you FEEL. there are men that are naturally towards the low end of the T ref range and men that are naturally towards the higher end. for all you know this number may be perfectly normal for you. again, how do you FEEL?

your estradiol is less than ideal. normally like to see this in the upper teens so if you can lower this your T will naturally improve. do you carry alot of belly fat?

do you have symptoms of low T?

Last edited by tendency : 04-25-2014 at 08:03 PM.
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  #7  
Unread 04-25-2014, 08:07 PM
noah_k noah_k is offline
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Well he says he already knows he has low T and feels said symptoms, asking if it affects endurance (it does) recovery (it does) and to what degree (quite significantly). But apparently he already knew this as he's done his research, quite a lot of it, so I'm not too sure what he's actually after here

It'd be nice to let people know in advance they don't have to spend the time to dig things up or weigh in like FredBlogg and others, instead of waiting for several replies and coming back to say "yeah I know, I know my stuff"
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  #8  
Unread 04-25-2014, 09:47 PM
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Dean407 Dean407 is offline
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I wanted to get opinions on a board that isn't Steroid/TRT based.

Instead of having a pity party, I will take a hard look at my nutrition and add some supplements to to the best I can to drop E2 and raise T. I don't expect much but at least I can maximize my nutrition.

I found this site interesting:

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/0...one-naturally/

Is it true? <SHRUG> There seems to be a ring of truth to it, but I doubt the validity of the jump in T from diet alone.

I will fight the good fight and see what's what in a month or two.
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  #9  
Unread 04-28-2014, 05:35 AM
FredBlogg FredBlogg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean407 View Post
So, I called all three Urologist offices and the first one they wanted me to see didn't have an appointment until MID JULY.
Specialties tend to overlap a bit. PSA issues would typically be shunted off to a urologist. For testosterone issues you may be better served seeing an endochrinologist. If you are very fortunate you may be able to find a sports-oriented physician who is unafraid of higher than minimal T levels. I previously had one whom I found via a recommendation at a physical therapy facility.
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  #10  
Unread 04-28-2014, 12:35 PM
ziggy256 ziggy256 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean407 View Post
I wanted to get opinions on a board that isn't Steroid/TRT based..
Try www.allthingsmale.com the guys on there are helpful and its not a steroid board, its run by a leading TRT Dr, Dr Chrisler.
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