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  #11  
Unread 01-16-2014, 01:27 AM
Bacfa Bacfa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilneophytou90 View Post
Lyle says per pound of lean body mass? Im about 70kg of LBM so thats roughly 150lbs
Oh yeah you're right. In his protein book he gives a recommendation of 3.0-3.3g of protein per kg total mass while dieting though. Not sure if this applies to UD2. I think the UD2 is older than the protein book (?) so that's why I've been using the upper end of the recommendations. Also eases my diet adherence.
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  #12  
Unread 01-16-2014, 07:19 AM
neilneophytou90 neilneophytou90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacfa View Post
Oh yeah you're right. In his protein book he gives a recommendation of 3.0-3.3g of protein per kg total mass while dieting though. Not sure if this applies to UD2. I think the UD2 is older than the protein book (?) so that's why I've been using the upper end of the recommendations. Also eases my diet adherence.
My protein is usually higher than what I stated in my previous post - if for example on the low carb days, if I'm sitting around 40 or so grams I definitely bump my protein up 10/20 grams for the day!

In regards to weight loss, the UD2.0 is not necessarily geared towards rapid fat loss though is it? I am definitely seeing my body fat shift slowly and am becoming more vascular, but just want to make sure I was doing everything correctly in order to maximise fat loss!
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  #13  
Unread 01-16-2014, 10:10 AM
Bacfa Bacfa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilneophytou90 View Post
My protein is usually higher than what I stated in my previous post - if for example on the low carb days, if I'm sitting around 40 or so grams I definitely bump my protein up 10/20 grams for the day!

In regards to weight loss, the UD2.0 is not necessarily geared towards rapid fat loss though is it? I am definitely seeing my body fat shift slowly and am becoming more vascular, but just want to make sure I was doing everything correctly in order to maximise fat loss!
True, but Lyle recommends even a habitual intake of 2.5-3g/kg and 3.0-3.3 even for a slight deficit. But this is all in the protein book and not in the UD2 so I guess you'll be fine.

IMO UD2 can be used for bulking, dieting or recomping all depending on your personal preferences. It probably works best for gradual, slow fat loss like you said.

I've seen the best results with over 3g/kg protein intake no matter the diet, but you'll know what works for you. If not, try switching it up.
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  #14  
Unread 01-16-2014, 01:09 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Why "gradual slow fat loss"? You could lose near on a kilo fat a week on this program if your maintenance levels are high. My flatmate managed 8-9 lbs fat loss in a cycle of 4 weeks. That's fast.
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  #15  
Unread 01-16-2014, 01:39 PM
neilneophytou90 neilneophytou90 is offline
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Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
Why "gradual slow fat loss"? You could lose near on a kilo fat a week on this program if your maintenance levels are high. My flatmate managed 8-9 lbs fat loss in a cycle of 4 weeks. That's fast.
My maintenance is only 2600, so my depletion/low carb day cals sit around 1200-1300 per day.

Although the notion was dismissed earlier on in the threat, I do believe that my fat loss may seem slower due to the duration of time that I've had actually had the fat on me. I was overweight as a young child, then obese as a young teen - although I have been training a few years now and most of that fat is gone, I still am holding about 5-6 kg of fat that I've never ever gotten rid of (this is the "stubborn" fat I am referring to)

Surely this will take longer to get rid of than say someone who has been lean all their lives but put on a couple extra kg of fat during a bulk cycle?
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  #16  
Unread 01-16-2014, 02:19 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilneophytou90 View Post
My maintenance is only 2600
Oh? You sure about that? Awfully low for a man of your size. You may be mistaken. Even 70kg males typically consume ballpark 2,500kcal daily without particularly changing in body composition.

Quote:
so my depletion/low carb day cals sit around 1200-1300 per day.
Again probably greater than that and you aren't even factoring in cardio and the depletion workouts.

AT ANY RATE, even if your deficit were no more than that, then you might still lose as much as 1.5lbs fat in a week of running the program. That's still not slow.

Quote:
Although the notion was dismissed earlier on in the threat, I do believe that my fat loss may seem slower due to the duration of time that I've had actually had the fat on me. I was overweight as a young child, then obese as a young teen - although I have been training a few years now and most of that fat is gone, I still am holding about 5-6 kg of fat that I've never ever gotten rid of (this is the "stubborn" fat I am referring to)
This really is complete nonsense, and I'd warn against believing in this sort of quackery as it will only cause unnecessary psychological obstacles. The reason you never lost that fat is you never had a suitable deficit to do so. Not because your body has magically decided it's super important that you keep it.

Quote:
Surely this will take longer to get rid of than say someone who has been lean all their lives but put on a couple extra kg of fat during a bulk cycle?
Why should it necessarily take longer? It's not as simple as that.
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  #17  
Unread 01-16-2014, 03:00 PM
neilneophytou90 neilneophytou90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
Oh? You sure about that? Awfully low for a man of your size. You may be mistaken. Even 70kg males typically consume ballpark 2,500kcal daily without particularly changing in body composition.

Again probably greater than that and you aren't even factoring in cardio and the depletion workouts.

AT ANY RATE, even if your deficit were no more than that, then you might still lose as much as 1.5lbs fat in a week of running the program. That's still not slow.

This really is complete nonsense, and I'd warn against believing in this sort of quackery as it will only cause unnecessary psychological obstacles. The reason you never lost that fat is you never had a suitable deficit to do so. Not because your body has magically decided it's super important that you keep it.

Why should it necessarily take longer? It's not as simple as that.
To be honest mate, I have spent the last 4-5 years of my life stuck spinning my wheels. Lean out (never 'shredded ' though), bulk, get fat, lean out and the cycle continues. It wasn't until I found Lyle and the UD2.0 that I decided I was not going to attempt another bulking cycle until I first hit single digit bf%.

I suppose the whole 'stubborn body fat' is just something I've conditioned myself to believe to validate the past 5 years of getting nowhere.

It's stupid, I know.

Last edited by neilneophytou90 : 01-16-2014 at 03:52 PM.
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  #18  
Unread 01-17-2014, 02:15 AM
ipax ipax is offline
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neil, happens both with nutrition and with exercise -- a lot of us do it just enough to get good-enough results, and don't effect either hard enough or long enough for great results. When we get present to that, by experimentation, self realization, outside inspiration, whatever, it opens up an entire realm of new possibility.

Sure genetics matter, but IMO they matter only at the world-competitor level. For the results you or I seek, average-joe genes are just fine.

I liken it to ... degrees of academic achievement: nowadays just about anybody can get a college degree; getting a Nobel prize, well, that needs a whole lot of things to line up. Not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea
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  #19  
Unread 01-17-2014, 05:34 AM
neilneophytou90 neilneophytou90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipax View Post
neil, happens both with nutrition and with exercise -- a lot of us do it just enough to get good-enough results, and don't effect either hard enough or long enough for great results. When we get present to that, by experimentation, self realization, outside inspiration, whatever, it opens up an entire realm of new possibility.

Sure genetics matter, but IMO they matter only at the world-competitor level. For the results you or I seek, average-joe genes are just fine.

I liken it to ... degrees of academic achievement: nowadays just about anybody can get a college degree; getting a Nobel prize, well, that needs a whole lot of things to line up. Not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea
You really hit the nail on the head mate. Thank you.

Never having been able to get "shredded," whether it be from being misinformed or not educating myself enough, I have almost conditioned myself to believe that i just isn't possible for me to get there.

Even though I have built some ok muscle over the years, I still have saggy pecs, flab in certain areas all over my body.. and I just can't see how its possible to get rid of it - and so I go on and tell myself that it must be "stubborn fat" or the result of "being so fat as a child" - when it reality, as you said, its all due to me just not being able to stick with it long enough to reach my goal.

I see transformations online of guys that were much heavier than I ever was, who are able to get down to a lean/tight physique at 7%. And I think to myself... well why is that I, never having been that overweight, still have fat deposits around my abs? And my glutes? Surely its something that I am going to have to just live with forever blah blah....

Constant struggle between my mind and desire to reach my goals.

Bit of a sob story.. but thats what I figure these "support" forums are!
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  #20  
Unread 01-17-2014, 06:00 AM
rhwbullhead rhwbullhead is offline
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This is just a problem many face in whatever goals they are trying to achieve. It takes a certain effort and dedication to get to a certain point, and that it really takes more, and sometimes extreme efforts to get to the next level.

The problem is that the payoff doesn't seem as worth it as it was to get to that next level.

There are examples from all over the place. In the business work, there is talk about how it's supposedly hard to go from say making 100,000 to 1 million, to 100 million. Even if the later goals are possible, you don't feel as motivated because things feel good where you're at, and the next level might mean double, tripling or doing 10X the effort for minor improvements.

In pickup, there's a zone where guys are comfortable just getting regular action and might say they want to get the top women, but again, same problem, the effort required seems enormous for seemingly minor gains.

As you said above, the same seems to be true for you body comp goals. I also suffered from the same problem. Well, I even fell off the wagon completely several times in the last 12 years, but when I did lose a lot of weight, I had a hard time pushing to the next level.

When I was obese, there were so many reasons to lose the weight. Among the top were of course for health, and for appearance. When I got down from 190-200 to 170, people told me how great I looked because they remembered how large I was before.

It took me about a year to finally get the motivation to push down to the 150's and then I hovered aroudn 145-150 because I just couldn't get leverage on myself to push down to getting really lean.

I'm currently on a push to single digits once again. This time, I think I have a chance. I'm just doing it to achieve a goal and I realize that it won't change my life. Heck, with clothes on, I look the same as I did 5-10 lbs heavier and I stopped telling normal people that I'm cutting weight because they look at me funny. One problem I had last year was that I got very lean, and then I couldn't maintain it for more than like two weeks. This time, I realize that the maintance will be another challenge.

Anyway, I hope that rambling helps in some way. If you want to do it, you have to find some way to get yourself to do it. Just realize that getting there is part of the fun and that your life isn't all of a sudden gonna change if/when you get there.
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