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  #11  
Unread 09-02-2014, 11:52 AM
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amir85 amir85 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlol View Post
What are your opinions on this stuff for muscle gain? I've been digging around and found quite a wealth of studies supporting its effect and safety, so I'm thinking about giving X-factor a run for my next bulk.

My main concern is the link between Omega 6's and tumor growth, which is also documented. Although I have no existing tumors or family history with problems one never really knows, so maybe it is wise to have a full check up before using AA?

Any experience and info will be greatly appreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlol View Post
I did in fact. All I found was 2 one-reply topics, both saying that AA is useless, yet none providing any backing up or explanation
Kindly provide links to the wealth of double blind studies that supports Arachidonic acid's effect and safety in healthy humans?
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  #12  
Unread 09-02-2014, 01:52 PM
Bloodlol Bloodlol is offline
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http://arachidonic.com/?page_id=6

http://arachidonic.com/?page_id=8
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  #13  
Unread 09-02-2014, 02:37 PM
Burntwookie Burntwookie is offline
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In vitro study:

Arachidonic acid supplementation enhances in vitro skeletal muscle cell growth via a COX-2-dependent pathway.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23076795

In vivo:

Effects of Arachidonic Acid Supplementation on Skeletal Muscle Mass,
Strength, and Power


https://molecularnutrition.co/mm5/gr..._ACID_NSCA.pdf
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  #14  
Unread 09-02-2014, 03:41 PM
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amir85 amir85 is offline
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Did both of you even read or did research on the links you posted. Mind you that three of four were hosted by the supplement companies & data were selectively cherry picked to promote their products:
http://arachidonic.com/?page_id=6
Actual paper: http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/21
Quote:
AA supplementation during resistance-training may enhance anaerobic capacity and lessen the inflammatory response to training. However, AA supplementation did not promote statistically greater gains in strength, muscle mass, or influence markers of muscle hypertrophy.
http://arachidonic.com/?page_id=6
Actual paper:http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/119/6/902.full.pdf: It's a review paper, not an actual double blind study.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burntwookie View Post
In vitro study:

Arachidonic acid supplementation enhances in vitro skeletal muscle cell growth via a COX-2-dependent pathway.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23076795

In vivo:

Effects of Arachidonic Acid Supplementation on Skeletal Muscle Mass,
Strength, and Power


https://molecularnutrition.co/mm5/gr..._ACID_NSCA.pdf
  • Effects of Arachidonic Acid Supplementation on Skeletal Muscle Mass, Strength, and Power
Could they reproduced the results in vivo study?
Quote:
In conclusion, the findings of the present study show that an increased availability of free AA and subsequent metabolism by the COX-2 pathway have a net stimulatory effect on in vitro skeletal muscle cell growth.
  • Effects of Arachidonic Acid Supplementation on Skeletal Muscle Mass,
    Strength, and Power
It's shocking that besides Molecular Nutrition Supplement store, this gem of a study does not appear in any other accredited journal
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  #15  
Unread 09-02-2014, 04:29 PM
Myles.Buckley Myles.Buckley is offline
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the typical north american diet already has a massively large surplus of omega-6 fatty acids. save you money and don't bother supplementing it.
__________________
1. Ketosis doesn't matter.
2. Strength training+Protein+DHA/EPA+veggies+vitamins&minerals DOES.
3. Search BEFORE you ask questions.
4. Use google as well - Add "site:lylemcdonald.com". Google can find those short strings of letters.
5. You are not a rodent so follow up with pubmed (http://pubmed.org) use "+human" "-rat" "-mouse" modifiers
6. Check the STICKY threads.
7. use google to find all my posts.
8. Supplement evidence
9. Private message are cheerfully ignored.
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  #16  
Unread 09-02-2014, 08:30 PM
Burntwookie Burntwookie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles.Buckley View Post
the typical north american diet already has a massively large surplus of omega-6 fatty acids. save you money and don't bother supplementing it.
*sigh*

Dietary sources of arachidonic acid include:

Lean beef (460mg/kg)[7]
Raw beef ribeye (460mg/kg raw, 200mg/kg cooked; 1.1% total fatty acids)[5]
Whole eggs (2,390mg/kg raw, 1,490mg/kg cooked; 1.9% total fatty acids)[5]
Chicken breast (640mg/kg raw, 400mg/kg cooked; 4.9% total fatty acids)[5]
Chicken thigh (1060mg/kg raw; 2.9% total fatty acids)[5]
Turkey breast (590mg/kg raw, 300mg/kg cooked; 3.1% total fatty acids)[5]
Pork loin (530mg/kg raw, 300mg/kg cooked; 2.2% total fatty acids)[5]
White tuna (packed in water and 330mg/kg[5]
Duck (990mg/kg)[8]
Kangaroo (620+/-120mg/kg)[4]
Emu (1,300+/-300mg/kg)[4]
Kidney (Lamb; 1,530+/-110mg/kg)[4]
Liver (Oxen; 2,940+/-640mg/kg)[4]
Barramundi (260+/-60mg/kg)[4]
Salmon (1,000+/-920mg/kg)[4][quote]

Concentrations of AA in the body follow a non-linear dose-dependent relationship with dietary linoleic acid (the parent omega-6 fatty acid)[12][13] where human diets consisting of less than 2% linoleic acid experience increases in plasma arachidonic acid when supplementing extra linoleic acid[14] but those at 6% or more ('standard' western diet) do not.[15] Conversely, dietary arachidonica acid itself dose-dependently increases plasma arachidonic acid.[16][17]

Reducing arachidonic acid in the diet slightly (244% instead of 217%) increases the amount of EPA stored in the membranes of erythrocytes (from supplementation of Fish Oil) with no influence on DHA.[18]



[4]Mann NJ, et al. The arachidonic acid content of the Australian diet is lower than previously estimated. J Nutr. (1995)
[5]Taber L, Chiu CH, Whelan J. Assessment of the arachidonic acid content in foods commonly consumed in the American diet. Lipids. (1998)
[6]Phinney SD, et al. Reduced arachidonate in serum phospholipids and cholesteryl esters associated with vegetarian diets in humans. Am J Clin Nutr. (1990)
[7]Sinclair AJ, et al. Diets rich in lean beef increase arachidonic acid and long-chain omega 3 polyunsaturated fatty acid levels in plasma phospholipids. Lipids. (1994)
[8]Li D, et al. Contribution of meat fat to dietary arachidonic acid. Lipids. (1998)

[12]MOHRHAUER H, HOLMAN RT. THE EFFECT OF DOSE LEVEL OF ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS UPON FATTY ACID COMPOSITION OF THE RAT LIVER. J Lipid Res. (1963)
[13[Renaud SC, Ruf JC, Petithory D. The positional distribution of fatty acids in palm oil and lard influences their biologic effects in rats. J Nutr. (1995)
[14]James MJ, et al. Simple relationships exist between dietary linoleate and the n-6 fatty acids of human neutrophils and plasma. Am J Clin Nutr. (1993)
[15]Rett BS, Whelan J. Increasing dietary linoleic acid does not increase tissue arachidonic acid content in adults consuming Western-type diets: a systematic review. Nutr Metab (Lond). (2011)
[16]Whelan J, et al. Dietary arachidonate enhances tissue arachidonate levels and eicosanoid production in Syrian hamsters. J Nutr. (1993)
[17]Adam O. Immediate and long range effects of the uptake of increased amounts of arachidonic acid. Clin Investig. (1992)
[18]Adam O, et al. Anti-inflammatory effects of a low arachidonic acid diet and fish oil in patients with rheumatoid arthritis. Rheumatol Int. (2003)

Last edited by Burntwookie : 09-02-2014 at 08:32 PM.
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  #17  
Unread 09-02-2014, 09:10 PM
Bloodlol Bloodlol is offline
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So 5kg of chicken breasts makes the daily dose (1,5-2g)
Doesn't sound like a much cheaper alternative
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  #18  
Unread 09-05-2014, 09:52 PM
w_llewellyn w_llewellyn is offline
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Arachidonic acid has been the main focus of my professional work for more than a decade. I believe I understand the effect this nutrient has on muscle growth, and its value for strength athletes and bodybuilders with regard to supplementation, as well as anyone. I'd be happy to answer any questions. Just to touch on a few points:

- ARA is abundant in muscle (10-20% muscle PL), and responsible for triggering protein synthesis after exercise.

- Muscle PL FA levels are constantly in flux. Regular training may lower muscle PL ARA levels.

- The Western diet is rich in linoleic acid (LA), not necessarily ARA.

- LA is a root precursor to ARA, but a very weak one (less than 1%). Just because you take in plenty of linoleic acid DOES NOT MEAN your muscle tissue is enriched with ARA, especially if you are training hard.

- ARA is to the Omega-6's what DHA is to the Omega-3's, the biologically essential representative of its class that is responsible for most effects.

- The Baylor study reported a significant peak power increase in trained men with 50 days 1g/day ARA, with the other performance variables approaching significance, and the study was underpowered. Follow up Tampa study just published, which used tighter controls, reported signifiant strength, size, LBM, and power increases with trained men taking 1.5 g/day ARA for 8 weeks.

- I've been working with this nutrient for more than a decade. ARA supplementation WORKS. I'd argue it is a game changer.

--> If you've already summarily dismisses this without so much as taking an honest look at it yourself, there is a good chance you are a closed-minded tool-bag, and an example of why science is sometimes painfully slow.
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  #19  
Unread 09-08-2014, 07:12 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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You need a new hobby, William. 10 years studying a minor fatty acid. really?

And did you really just join my forum to defend your pet project?

Seriously, son, you make my life look full if you have nothing better to do than to police the Internet for something that might hurt your bottom line.
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  #20  
Unread 09-08-2014, 08:51 AM
w_llewellyn w_llewellyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
You need a new hobby, William. 10 years studying a minor fatty acid. really?

And did you really just join my forum to defend your pet project?

Seriously, son, you make my life look full if you have nothing better to do than to police the Internet for something that might hurt your bottom line.
ARA is not a minor fatty acid. It is the root trigger of protein synthesis after resistance training; the only fatty acid with such a direct role in hypertrophy. It literally rewrites our understanding of the role EFAs play in muscle growth. The fact that you, a respected researcher in our field, continue to identify it is as a minor FA is proof that I haven't been doing enough.

There is ample evidence to support what I am writing here; you just need to open your mind and take a look. If you need a hand, Iím here.

Incidentally, I have ARA on Google alert. I post on occasion, when it is an interesting discussion, or it involves someone I have respect for. Best to you, Lyle.
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Author of bestselling ANABOLICS Reference Guide series.
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