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  #1  
Unread 05-04-2018, 12:35 PM
HeavyLifting145 HeavyLifting145 is offline
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Default 12-15+ Rep range

Lyle,

According to some recent studies I've come across it seems as if training in all rep ranges produces similar hypertrophy. As in, you don't just need to train in the 6-12 rep range; you could train with 12-15+ reps and still get the same results.

If this is correct, wouldn't it make sense to lift primarily in the 12-15 rep range for most exercises (maybe not squats and deadlifts) ?With this rep range the loads would be lighter, and I'm assuming it would be a little easier on the joints long term. After suffering from tennis elbow for the past 7 months it seems like this might be a good idea. Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Unread 05-04-2018, 12:39 PM
manofsteel manofsteel is offline
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From what I understand in terms of muscle hypertrophy it will produce similar results but higher rep ranges increase stamina while higher weight increase max amount you can lift.
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Unread 05-05-2018, 12:29 AM
alaloum alaloum is offline
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In for answer, I'm on my feet 15 hrs/day and when I attempted to keep lifting heavy I couldn't recover no matter how much food I had. Lifting lighter for a bit higher rep no. sounds appealing if the results are roughly the same
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  #4  
Unread 05-05-2018, 02:48 AM
manofsteel manofsteel is offline
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27174923

"Forty-nine resistance-trained men (23 1 yr, mean SE) performed 12 wk of whole-body RT. Subjects were randomly allocated into a higher-repetition (HR) group who lifted loads of ∼30-50% of their maximal strength (1RM) for 20-25 repetitions/set (n = 24) or a lower-repetition (LR) group (∼75-90% 1RM, 8-12 repetitions/set, n = 25), with all sets being performed to volitional failure. Skeletal muscle biopsies, strength testing, dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry scans, and acute changes in systemic hormone concentrations were examined pretraining and posttraining. In response to RT, 1RM strength increased for all exercises in both groups (P < 0.01), with only the change in bench press being significantly different between groups (HR, 9 1, vs. LR, 14 1 kg, P = 0.012). Fat- and bone-free (lean) body mass and type I and type II muscle fiber cross-sectional area increased following training (P < 0.01) with no significant differences between groups."
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Unread 05-05-2018, 03:09 AM
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zLeeKo zLeeKo is offline
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Yeah, you can do it. But it's 5x more painful since LA is accumulating quickly compared to 6-10 rep range and it's not practical on lifts that include lower back due to fatigue you'll get from such high rep ranges (compound lifts like RDL's, squats, etc).

Higher reps are good for CT health, yeah, but as you said, do them for most exercises (especially isolation), but keep at LEAST some compound sets in the slightly lower rep ranges, so you don't puke after a workout. IME, high reps are really nauseous.
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Unread 05-29-2018, 08:52 PM
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BEATMEOUTTAME BEATMEOUTTAME is offline
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That study appears to be comparing training 20 to 25(!) repetitions per set with 8-12 repetitions per set...

More than 20 reps is just kinda being ridiculous. 20 reps is about the most you can do before you might as well go get a pink dumb bell to curl and one of those ab electrical impulse products you see on infomercials.

For all practical purposes 20 and 12 aren't THAT much different of rep ranges....

If you take the rep ranges and lay them out on a number line from 1 to 20... The halfway point between 1 and 20 isn't 10. It's more like 5.

Take two beginners and have them lift on a serious training program for 90 days. Have one do all his lifts in the 5 rep range. Have the other do them all in the 20 rep range. These guys are going to look absolutely NOTHING alike.

More importantly the guy in the 20 rep range is barely going to progress in strength while the 5 rep guy is going to be the Incredible Hulk comparably. Like they probably won't even be able to work out together because the 5 rep guy will get tired of having to take the plates off in between every set.


I mean just think about it. If a guy works out in the 5 rep range for a year and can now bench press 300 lbs. And then he switches to a "bodybuilding rep range" and starts doing 10 reps of 225 lbs...

Meanwhile the 20 rep guy can only bench press 150 lbs and he's doing "bodybuilding rep range" with 10 reps of 115 lbs...

Who do you think is going to have more muscle? Who do you think will have the better physique? A lot of people don't seem to comprehend this but it just seems so obvious once you really think about it. Particularly if you bought into all the 3 sets of 12 reps BS in high school and barely gained anything while friends around you who weren't scared of lifting real weights got huge
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Unread 05-30-2018, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEATMEOUTTAME View Post
That study appears to be comparing training 20 to 25(!) repetitions per set with 8-12 repetitions per set...

More than 20 reps is just kinda being ridiculous. 20 reps is about the most you can do before you might as well go get a pink dumb bell to curl and one of those ab electrical impulse products you see on infomercials.

For all practical purposes 20 and 12 aren't THAT much different of rep ranges....

If you take the rep ranges and lay them out on a number line from 1 to 20... The halfway point between 1 and 20 isn't 10. It's more like 5.

Take two beginners and have them lift on a serious training program for 90 days. Have one do all his lifts in the 5 rep range. Have the other do them all in the 20 rep range. These guys are going to look absolutely NOTHING alike.

More importantly the guy in the 20 rep range is barely going to progress in strength while the 5 rep guy is going to be the Incredible Hulk comparably. Like they probably won't even be able to work out together because the 5 rep guy will get tired of having to take the plates off in between every set.


I mean just think about it. If a guy works out in the 5 rep range for a year and can now bench press 300 lbs. And then he switches to a "bodybuilding rep range" and starts doing 10 reps of 225 lbs...

Meanwhile the 20 rep guy can only bench press 150 lbs and he's doing "bodybuilding rep range" with 10 reps of 115 lbs...

Who do you think is going to have more muscle? Who do you think will have the better physique? A lot of people don't seem to comprehend this but it just seems so obvious once you really think about it. Particularly if you bought into all the 3 sets of 12 reps BS in high school and barely gained anything while friends around you who weren't scared of lifting real weights got huge
We're talking about hypertrophy, not strength, even tho they're correlated.

Conclusion: do both low and high reps.
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Unread 05-30-2018, 11:29 AM
triliad triliad is offline
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i enjoy rep ranges of 8-15 because i love the muscle cramping and extreme fatigue. so i tend to keep my compound lifts heavier and in the 1-6 rep range depending on the day
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Unread 05-30-2018, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triliad View Post
i enjoy rep ranges of 8-15 because i love the muscle cramping and extreme fatigue. so i tend to keep my compound lifts heavier and in the 1-6 rep range depending on the day
I think everyone loves cramping. I mean, being out there with nature and all, away from the hustle and bustle of the big city...

Sometimes you get real tired, cause you were hiking or whatever. And that's a fact.

Some other people live on the range, or in a compound, depending on the day.

I understand.
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Unread 05-30-2018, 04:04 PM
AlphaBettor AlphaBettor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyLifting145 View Post
Lyle,

According to some recent studies I've come across it seems as if training in all rep ranges produces similar hypertrophy. As in, you don't just need to train in the 6-12 rep range; you could train with 12-15+ reps and still get the same results.

If this is correct, wouldn't it make sense to lift primarily in the 12-15 rep range for most exercises (maybe not squats and deadlifts) ?With this rep range the loads would be lighter, and I'm assuming it would be a little easier on the joints long term. After suffering from tennis elbow for the past 7 months it seems like this might be a good idea. Any thoughts?
It's a complicated topic and not something anyone can do justice in one post.

There is plenty of research that says that higher rep work is at least as effective for hypertrophy as lower rep work. But then this is also subject to the same limitations that a lot of hypertrophy research is-- e.g. beginner trainees, issues with study design, length of the study, etc. I tend to think the effectiveness of the high rep stuff (e.g. 20+) gets exaggerated in these studies due to the populations studied and the length of testing, but a lot of this is intuition/experience and not directly tested.

The 12-15 range is more complicated as you're still above 65% 1RM or so. I still wouldn't limit myself just to that range unless there was a good reason to, like joint pain. But if you want to try it for whatever reason, go ahead. Keep good notes, see how you do, and compare it to other training you've done.
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