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  #1  
Unread 06-15-2017, 03:15 PM
Ironz Ironz is offline
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Default effects of deficit on fat:lbm loss ratio

The ratio of fat:lbm loss will tilt towards lbm as fat % is getting lower, and as diet adaptations are taking root. i'm realizing this may be an over-simplified question, but assuming all the other diet parameters are balanced properly, will the size of the deficit have any impact on how much muscle we're going to lose?

so lets take persons A and B, two identical persons in every possible aspect of their lives. they both diet down from 20%bf to 10%bf. they train well and eat the same amount of protein and carbs. only fat intake differs. person A was at a long 10% deficit, and person B at a shorter 30% deficit.

Now, i'm realizing overall diet & training strategy may change with respect to the caloric deficit. so a 30% deficit diet would have more refeeds, perhaps train a bit differently, etc. but lets just bluntly ignore all that. lets embrace stupidity and let its light bathe us. will they both lose roughly the same muscle mass during the diet?
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  #2  
Unread 06-15-2017, 03:27 PM
PhysiologyIsPhun PhysiologyIsPhun is offline
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I'm sure this discussion has been had on here a thousand times but I haven't read one on here so I'll play. I'd say it depends on the A and B's hypothetical bodyweight. At a certain deficit, the body would not be able to release enough fatty acids from fat cells to provide the energy necessary to overcome the deficit. At some point, amino acids are going to start getting oxidized. Question is at what deficit does the oxidation of amino acids become such a huge issue that noticeable extra muscle loss occurs? I think this would have to come down to the total body fat stored on a person's body (more fat cells should theoretically provide more fatty acids).

So is a 30% deficit higher than what it takes to start losing muscle at an appreciable rate for a person at 10% bf? If so, then B would lose more muscle but if not, I would expect the muscle loss to be similar.
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  #3  
Unread 06-15-2017, 11:26 PM
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BEATMEOUTTAME BEATMEOUTTAME is offline
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It seems the standard answer in contest prep is "1 lb weight loss per week when you're 15% or below and you might want to do a reset for 2 weeks and eat at maintenance about halfway through".

This means If you lift heavy and keep the deficit at roughly 500 calories/day you'll be right on target. You'll need to account for your metabolism adapting during the diet and becoming lower over time due to adaptation and weight loss.

This is somewhat anecdotal but I've also seen some similar suggestions on here that results are slightly better if half the deficit is created through look intensity cardio and half via diet.

Whether this has any physiological benefits or not it certainly allows a not insignificant amount of food you can add to your diet instead of having to eat extremely clean.
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Last edited by BEATMEOUTTAME : 06-15-2017 at 11:27 PM. Reason: A
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  #4  
Unread 06-15-2017, 11:31 PM
reggaestar reggaestar is offline
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Easy. 30% would lose more muscle.

10% vs. 30% does not mean the extra 20% would all come from fat.

There is more protein loss as the deficit increases.
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  #5  
Unread 06-16-2017, 11:12 PM
Ironz Ironz is offline
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well ofc, but there's also more fat loss, and done properly the diet would also last less. maybe half as long? idk. so you're losing more muscle yet also more fat, and you diet for a much shorter time too. so at the end maybe you'll endup roughly the same as with a 10% diet, only you'll get there faster.

ofc this entire discussion is..well.. a bit pointless, since you need to modify what your doing based on results anyway, regardless of what you though is ought to happen. I like pointless discussions. I live for them. (my wife hates that)
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  #6  
Unread 06-17-2017, 08:26 AM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reggaestar View Post
Easy. 30% would lose more muscle.

10% vs. 30% does not mean the extra 20% would all come from fat.

There is more protein loss as the deficit increases.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...olism-qa.html/
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  #7  
Unread 06-18-2017, 12:43 PM
Ironz Ironz is offline
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oh would you look at that...
Thanks!
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