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  #1  
Unread 01-28-2018, 09:22 AM
Twitchy Twitchy is offline
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Default How Do I Train Abs

I can't seem to find the post but I believe it was mentioned before that ab training doesn't need to much. No more than 2x/week with low reps(5-10~).

I'm always getting mixed answers when it comes to training the abs for hypertrophy/aesthetics no matter where I look. Besides the obvious need of being at a low body fat to seem them.

Some say you don't need to train them at all; compound lifts such as deadlifts and squats take care of it. Others say no you need direct work of 10-15 or to failure reps to train them. A few say you need to train all parts of the abs; the oblique's, lower, and serratus using anti-lateral/rotational and etc.

What's the correct answer here? How do I train my abs for hypertrophy/aesthetics?
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Unread 01-28-2018, 09:31 AM
w1cked w1cked is offline
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I do like 4 to 6 sets twice a week ish. Half hanging leg raises half ab wheel rollouts. Cant be bothered to delve into nerdy details about sets/reps whatever try going close to couple reps shy of failure mostly
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  #3  
Unread 01-28-2018, 10:10 AM
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zLeeKo zLeeKo is offline
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Train them heavy ( or light by going to failure), 2-3 heavy sets of 6-8 twice a week, it takes 10 minutes weekly, if that. Made my abs slightly visible even at 15% BF.

Deadlifts and squats can't take care of it, since abs work statically, unless you're doing something wrong.

If the back stays flat (what 99.9% of people do in ab exercises for example), the abs work isometrically, but it's a hip flexion movement.

So you need them to work dynamically, by flexing the spine, since it's the function of abs.
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  #4  
Unread 01-28-2018, 11:20 AM
patriots2 patriots2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
I can't seem to find the post but I believe it was mentioned before that ab training doesn't need to much. No more than 2x/week with low reps(5-10~).

I'm always getting mixed answers when it comes to training the abs for hypertrophy/aesthetics no matter where I look. Besides the obvious need of being at a low body fat to seem them.

Some say you don't need to train them at all; compound lifts such as deadlifts and squats take care of it. Others say no you need direct work of 10-15 or to failure reps to train them. A few say you need to train all parts of the abs; the oblique's, lower, and serratus using anti-lateral/rotational and etc.

What's the correct answer here? How do I train my abs for hypertrophy/aesthetics?
Low body fat & genetics for the most part. Some people get abs at 15%, others 8% or lower. Seems like another genetic lottery. Ab exercises always feel like a losing proposition.
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  #5  
Unread 01-28-2018, 11:26 AM
lylemcdonald lylemcdonald is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriots2 View Post
Low body fat & genetics for the most part. Some people get abs at 15%, others 8% or lower. Seems like another genetic lottery. Ab exercises always feel like a losing proposition.
Building the abs slightly tend sto make them poke through the fat visually.

The people who say you don't need to train core if you hav ea 600 lb squat don't realize that you don't get a 600 lb squat without training core. And few squat 600.

You do direct work for triceps despite benching

So other than the fact that people are lazy about core work, why would you ignore abs because they fire during compound movements?
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  #6  
Unread 01-28-2018, 12:11 PM
Twitchy Twitchy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zLeeKo View Post
So you need them to work dynamically, by flexing the spine, since it's the function of abs.
This is very helpful, because I now notice I tend to start flexing the hips a bit when I fatigue in ab exercises.

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Originally Posted by lylemcdonald View Post
Building the abs slightly tend sto make them poke through the fat visually.
This seems to be the case for me as I can see a faint outline of a 4-pack in good light at ~18% BF if I flex.

I didn't mention it in the OP but what I've been doing for the past couple of months is hitting the abs through anti-flexion(crunches/leg raises/cable crunches), anti-rotation(Pallof Press/Plate Rotations), and anti-lateral(DB side bends) for 15 reps or until failure. I just alternate between them everyday.
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  #7  
Unread 01-28-2018, 12:41 PM
patriots2 patriots2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcdonald View Post
Building the abs slightly tend sto make them poke through the fat visually.

The people who say you don't need to train core if you hav ea 600 lb squat don't realize that you don't get a 600 lb squat without training core. And few squat 600.

You do direct work for triceps despite benching

So other than the fact that people are lazy about core work, why would you ignore abs because they fire during compound movements?
Told everyone I was usually wrong. Do the opposite like Costanza & things will work well.
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Unread 01-28-2018, 07:35 PM
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alcahuetej alcahuetej is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcdonald View Post
Building the abs slightly tend sto make them poke through the fat visually.

The people who say you don't need to train core if you hav ea 600 lb squat don't realize that you don't get a 600 lb squat without training core. And few squat 600.

You do direct work for triceps despite benching

So other than the fact that people are lazy about core work, why would you ignore abs because they fire during compound movements?
This all makes sense to me, and I've always included a small amount of ab work in my programs.

But in Eric Helm's book his programs don't include ab work because they felt the abs get worked enough during compound movements.

You reviewed the book, is this another small thing you would have added to the book (I think the second edition is coming out this year)?
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  #9  
Unread 01-29-2018, 05:21 AM
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zLeeKo zLeeKo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcahuetej View Post
This all makes sense to me, and I've always included a small amount of ab work in my programs.

But in Eric Helm's book his programs don't include ab work because they felt the abs get worked enough during compound movements.

You reviewed the book, is this another small thing you would have added to the book (I think the second edition is coming out this year)?
It doesn't cost much to include some direct ab work, it takes 10 minutes per week, like I said, and you will get better and faster ab development by doing it. Just my two cents.
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  #10  
Unread 02-18-2018, 02:19 PM
Twitchy Twitchy is offline
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Ahhh I actually found the posts in which Lyle Mcdonald mentions ab training:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
I have found, empirically, that people who work abs heavy (e.g. sets of 5-8) seem to have their abs show up at slghtly higher body fat levels just becuase they are a bit bigger and 'poke through' more easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
I don't think I'ver ever done ab specialization with anybody, never seemed to be needed. Just hit 'em hard and heavy for a few sets at the end of legs and that always seemed to be sufficient. but if you were going to do it, I'd do it just like the rest of specializatio, bunch of sets 2X/week as a priority. IF obliques get big easily, I'd say stick with weighted crunches and/or reverse crunches and be done with it.
I'll give these exercises and try and see how they work my abs.
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