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Unread 06-02-2008, 09:13 AM
darren darren is offline
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Default Eating less than 1 gram per lb?


I sometimes eat less than 1 gram per lb of LBM because I get tired of forcing down chicken, steak, etc..

Do you think taking a 2-3 day "break" and eating less than 1 gram per lb of LBM is a big deal in terms of maintaining one's muscle?

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Unread 06-02-2008, 01:34 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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would depend on

a. how much under
b. other conditions (e.g. caloric surplus vs. dieting)

but, in the big scheme of things, I doubt it's much to worry about
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Unread 06-05-2008, 07:56 AM
banderbe banderbe is offline
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Originally Posted by darren View Post

I sometimes eat less than 1 gram per lb of LBM because I get tired of forcing down chicken, steak, etc..

Do you think taking a 2-3 day "break" and eating less than 1 gram per lb of LBM is a big deal in terms of maintaining one's muscle?

That's sort of funny, I eat 260 to 280 grams a day (I weigh 180) and it seems like nothing.

Try making whey your protein source for two of those meals. Most days my first two meals have whey as the protein source.
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Unread 06-13-2008, 12:09 PM
Espi Espi is offline
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Not so funny if you''re not getting any/much dairy in with the exception of some cheese.

In order to have more food choices I'm eating less protein on low calorie/non training days and way more on high calorie/training days.
Which oftentimes results in eating a bit more P on the low P days and variable intakes on the high P days. When calories can be really high , P can get high too, as fattier foods are allowed. But otherwise, it gets boring.

Generally I still end up higher than 2xLBM. More like
2.4g/kg LBM on the low P day and
3.8 g/kg LBM on the high P day, sometimes pushing above 4.5g/kg LBM.
results in averaging around 3g/kg LBM.

Very occasionally though, esp. when I'm away from home intake can really drop down low, but over time that's not a problem whatsoever. I'm even suspecting it can have positive results to cycle protein intake as it won't be seen as much as 'expensive fuel/urine' by the body.
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Unread 06-13-2008, 01:51 PM
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AJS AJS is offline
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I sometimes get 1/2 to 3/4 a gram per pound when dieting and its not a problem at all. Keep weight intensities high, no strength loss.

I rather suspect that not eating enough protein has been a problem when bulking, however.
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Unread 07-17-2008, 10:04 AM
Pegleg1 Pegleg1 is offline
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Default I lowered my protein drastically and...

Hi ya'll, I wanted to post here, due to some recent discoveries I made about myself in regards to protein needed!

For over a year I've been hovering around fairly lean, but not as lean as I knew I felt best at. With only about 5 or so lb to lose on a small 5'2" has been aggravating as I've upped my cardio to daily 45-60 at 85% or higher on the elliptical, plus weights, some modest caloric deficit,a dn still was seeing wild weight fluctuations during the month (which Inever used to--water I suspect but not sure) and I wasn't seeing my last fat going. I've been reading a ton this past 16mos or so and all of it recommends at least 30-40% protein. Well, even with that amoutn of lean protein it wasn't budging. I did everything under the sun with lower carbs and felt cra**y, but having read so much about the effects of carbohydrates on some people with special sensitivities, I was almost afraid of them! Also, I'd done a metabolic typing online questionnaire twice last fall and I had come out in the protein type category. I put on a few lbs fast eating that higher purine protein!

In the last year I've *mostly* taken in 150-200 grm protein a day. That's a ton for me. I was convinced i was carb sensitive. But just lately I've cut it way back to see what would happen. I've kept fat really low, too--about 10-15%. Protein in the 60-70gm/day range. Wow, I've felt myself leaning out in the last few days, even with carbs above 230-250 a day. I'm having loads of vegetables and some fruit, starch 3 or 4 x a day, having 5 or sometimes 6 meals a day of 250-300cal.

I think I must have done those metab.typing questionnaires all wrong....what they call a 'carbo type' seems to be what I really am. It seems my body likes a much higher %age of carbs compared to protein and fat. The last few days I've probably had 65-70% of my calories from carbs-vegs,fruit,whole grain.

I'm seeing the last of my stubborn fat disappearing and quickly due to this change, and that with using no stimulants at all aside from coffee taken plain and black. I even think I'll be able to cut back on the cardio sessions since making this discovery about my own metabolism.

Eating more along the lines of the zone would let me lose some weight, but extremely slowly and with lots of fluctuations. And then, I'd get to a point and still have 3-4 lb of stubborn fat that absolutely would not move. One a short girl, that's enough to really make a difference in the clothes and also makes a difference in how energetic I feel.

My current %ages are approx
10-20% lean protein/
10-15% good fats /
60-70 % carbs from fruits/vegs/whole grains.

Another thing I've noticed since changing diet this way is that the scale is no longer showing the fluctuations I had before, AND, I'm not noticing the water retention I was having on higher protein. Curious, I'd read that higher carbs could cause water retention, but perhaps that's only when it's in conjunction with more protein than what your body needs.

I have books from several good places on recommended dietary percentages: Jillian Michael's "Making the Cut", Hugo Rivera's "Body Sculpting Bible for Women", of course Lyle's Stubborn Fat and Protein Book. His recommendations in the protein book were actually much more on target with what I'm doing now....between .6 - 1.6 gm protein per kg for me a day...I had been afraid to go that low on protein and that high on carbohydrates from all the other reading I had done. The first 2 books didn't recommend any lower than about 30% protein per day for women. I think now that that is more than I need.

It's so eye-opening when you make a discovery about yourself like this. The better you know your own body's preferences, the easier it is to maintain leanness for life. I don't think I've lost muscle mass--I use calipers and I'm measuring at 1mm at the hip--down some from 2 weeks ago.

Sorry so long ya'll...any other girls out there find they need much less protein than they previously thought?
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Unread 07-17-2008, 11:06 AM
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yksin yksin is offline
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I think part of it might be that dieting by percentages isn't the best way to set up a diet. Which was a surprise to me, because everyone does it -- but read this: part 1 | part 2 -- it makes sense.

So now, instead of building my diet by preset percentages, I start with sufficient protein & then build the other stuff around it. For me, the first addition is always nonstarchy veggies & a some fats (incidental fats with the protein, a little oil for dressing, nuts & seeds, etc.). If I want carbs, first choice is whole fruit; I try to follow the practice of eating starchy carbs like breads, pastas, grains, etc. only around workouts (pre-workout to about two hours post -- a piece of advice I first got from John Berardi's Precision Nutrition, which makes sense especially for a carb-sensitive/insulin resistant person like me).

Since learning to build meals this way, I find it really easy to adjust any given meal for including or excluding the stuff I don't want in it. Protein is always there, so are nonstarchy veggies, so is at least enough fat to give me my EFAs & keep my gall bladder functioning. Carbs & extra fats are optional, mostly for caloric ballast (Lyle's term, I believe) -- & because I'm insulin resistant, I'm more likely to go a little higher in the fats & a little lower in the carbs. Either one is easy to add in or leave out, as the case may be, & depending on how well you personally do with different levels of fats/carbs etc. But protein is more or less a constant, depending on your LBM & activity level. This now makes so much more sense to me than running things according to percentages.

-- Mel
Progress log (RFL cat. 3) Blog
5-1/4" (160 cm), 55, female, insulin resistant
Restart 17 Mar 2014: start 198.2 (89.9 kg) > current 180.8 (82.0 kg) (post-diet break) > goal 140 (63.6 kg)
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Unread 07-17-2008, 02:52 PM
Pegleg1 Pegleg1 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NTX
Posts: 10
Default percentages et al..

Mel, yes I agree with you about the percentages. I realize that I put those percentages in that last post,and up until only recently I'd build my daily intake with that in mind, trying tweaking it this way and that. Still nothing seemed to work at the stubborn last fat so long as the protein was higher. I also have the BFFM ebook (love it) and Mr. Venuto says himself there that anybody who eats more than about 50% of their daily calories in carbohydrates is likely to put on pounds fast. So before I was very careful to keep carbs well below that. To do that, I had to provide the ballast in the higher protein & fat. It seems that with me, exactly the opposite of this is better for me. I only realize this now.

Now, I have charted my daily weight, day of month, intake calories, exercise, protein/carb/fat grams almost every single day since May 07. Irealize it can be time-consuming, but it was an experiment for me to have data on myself, so that I could try to examine trends. I can see now that every time I dipped well towards my goal, it happened to coincide wtih days that for some reason I had way less protein. Even aside from carbs and fats, it seemed it hinged mostly off the amt of protein I'd have that day or series of days...I think that was a key for me. So now I plan my meals to have a little protein (and sometimes this can be just the amt already present in a carbohydrate such as sugar snap peas or rolled oats or Ezekiel bread) with lots of carbohydrates-mostly fruits and vegetables but also some healthier low gi starches, and a touch of fat. Like, 2 almonds on a large salad. I really don't need more than 6-9 gm protein per meal, at the rate of 5-6 little meals a day.

That data keeping experiment, I realized might take time for me, but I will do it just a little longer until I meet my goal (2lb away) and until I'm absolutely confirmed in my hunch about my individual macronutrient needs. Another thing comes to mind...every time in college when I had to drop a little summer lbs, it seemed like the big salads and fruits and a little meat would do the trick, over a period of weeks. Seems what was right for me 20 something years ago is still right for me.

So, I don't literally use percentages to plan my eating anymore like I once did. That is much less important than just keeping the proteins and fats lower, for me, and making sure I put enough healthy carbs in to keep my caloric intake high enough. It takes a ton of vegetables, lol. I feel good energy and mental clarity, tho..concentration, I think, is better.

Mel, have you the book Nutrient Timing? I usually have half a myoplex lite shake blended up with some sugar carb like banana, and ice and splenda, directly following a hard cardio workout. But otherwise I try to make the rest of my meals in whole foods.
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