Meal Frequency and Muscle Mass Gains

[lylemcd]

Excerpt from The Protein Book/Article on the main site

[frank yangs left quad]

there is evidence that increased AA oxidation is involved in the overall “anabolic drive” of the body.

protein oxidation was decreased (by 16%) in the group given three meals.

You see what I'm getting at? Or did I misread something …

And another thing: I assume a really big meal (100g protein + 1000 kcals of carbs and fat) would keep me in an anabolic state for way longer than the 5+ hours you say?
Addition after reading the whole thing: I wonder if 3 huge meals or the 3 meals + 3 EAA doses thingy Layne Norton is doing would be better. I mean, like you said, for example milk IS a combination of fast and slow protein, and drinking a whey shake as dessert (edit: after a meat heavy dinner) is a thing I've been doing a lot these days (until I ran out of whey)

[lylemcd]

"Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Thoreau

And yes, a much bigger meal will take much longer to digest. My point in referencing that study was simply that a relatively normal sized meal was still releasing nutrients at the 5 hour mark. So the idea that you must eat every 3 hours or your muskles fall off is ludicrious.

[Omn]

Very nice article. Good to know that the obsessive eating schedule convention is being put to rest...

[frank yangs left quad]

Originally Posted by Omn

Very nice article. Good to know that the obsessive eating schedule convention is being put to rest...

Ha, I guess you could get just as obssesive from reading this (say some bodybuilder who eats exactly 3 meals + 3 EAA supps at perfectly timed intervalls etc).
But I get what you mean.

RE: Laynes protein bolusing … The study measuring a worse leucine balance for 6 versus 3 casein doses makes me still think that an even lower meal frequency might be better. No idea if it's true. Anyways, when I'm trying to overeat, I eat many meals anyways (for reasons of effort).

[lylemcd]

As I discuss in the protein book, there are many practical issues relating to meal frequency and total calroic intake is one of them. Folks with large requirements may have to eat a lot of meals to get it in. By the same token, folks on fewer calories (e.g. small male or female dieters) would tend to find 6X200 calorie meals very disappointing.

[Sickbean]

Originally Posted by lylemcd

As I discuss in the protein book, there are many practical issues relating to meal frequency and total calroic intake is one of them. Folks with large requirements may have to eat a lot of meals to get it in. By the same token, folks on fewer calories (e.g. small male or female dieters) would tend to find 6X200 calorie meals very disappointing.

I find any meal that isn't chicken tikka rogan josh, 1/2 rice 1/2 chips with keema naan and 6 pints of Tiger beer to be somewhat 'disappointing'.

[SuperBig]

One other thing in Layne's study is that Leucine is the critical amino and ~3g seems to be the magic number. This brings up some interesting questions then:

1. It seems to make sense that you might want a full/balanced meal about 2-3 hours pre-workout, to allow for digestion and proper hormonal response during workout. I.e. blood not flowing primarily to the stomach for digestion but instead to the muscles, GH response, stable blood sugar/insulin?

2. Post-workout would probably be best to consist of some whey and some casein, as you allude to in the protein book.

3. But does this call into question the commonly held belief that you need another whole food meal within 1 hour of your post-workout shake? Instead, maybe holding off for 2-3 hours with the post-workout shake being of adequate protein and carbs, i.e. effectively getting 3g Leucine?

I have done the 6 meal/day thing I quite frankly I feel like crap when I try to eat every 2 hours. I do way better when I eat bigger meals ~ 4 hours apart with a good healthy dose of protein at each meal.

[lylemcd]

Re 1: Isn't his work currently in mice? Needs to be replicated in non small furry critters for me.

Re 2: Maybe, someone needs to test a lot more variety of around workout schemes than have been tested to date.

Re 3: Is this a commonly held belief? Frankliy, if the post-workout shake/meal whatever is big enough, I see zero point in another 1 hour later. I think that idea came out of a very sily study that gave a tiny amount of aminos post-workout (like 6 grams) and then again an hour later and found that it restimulated protein synthesis. If they had used a proper amount of post-workout protein (e.g. 40-50 grams), the 1 hour later meal would have done nothing IMO.

[cycomiko]

Originally Posted by lylemcd

Re 1: Isn't his work currently in mice? Needs to be replicated in non small furry critters for me.

probably not layne per se, but the work from Laymans whole group, never mind all of the other groups