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  #11  
Unread 02-25-2014, 04:21 PM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zev View Post
If you've been training for 20 years, then you probably aren't going to gain appreciable muscle in a couple of months. You probably aren't going to lose any, either, if you do *something* for each bodypart once a week. (The recommendation to train each bodypart multiple time per week is to optimize hypertrophy, not to avoid atrophy. The latter requires far less frequency and volume.) So I say do whatever sounds fun -- 3 sets, 20 sets, whatever.
It's really quite clear from OP's post that he is asking how best to do one-part-per-week for hypertrophy purposes. Your answer is entirely unhelpful.

@LightCrow - what are you talking about? What is optimal for one person may not be for another. One part a week works excellently for some trainees.

@OP's question - I'm also interested in the answer to this one. I wish somebody would come along who actually KNOWS the answer and contributes it, rather than irrelevant opinions.
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  #12  
Unread 02-26-2014, 05:10 AM
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muki muki is offline
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Lyle said...
"Overall, moderate volumes (≈30–60 repetitions per session for DER training) appear to yield the largest responses. An exception to this is with very high loads (90% 1RM or 120% to 230% 1RM with eccentrics) where high rates of growth have been shown with volumes as low as 12-14 repetitions per session.To date, relatively few studies have directly compared the effects of different volumes of work on the hypertrophic response as measured by scanning methodology. The paucity of data clearly warrants further research"

There is one recent paper on this topic though...that summarizes the findings so far...but provides nothing new
http://www.strengthandconditioningre...e-hypertrophy/

to the OP: This depends on many factors, but in any case I would go with higher end of that range (60 reps or so) since you are already pretty advanced and could benefit from extra volume to stimulate new growth. No need to go to extremes and double your volume though...

Last edited by muki : 02-26-2014 at 05:13 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 02-26-2014, 06:55 AM
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mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.G. View Post
Because I have been lifting for 20 years and I am bored...want to do something different for a month or 2...then go back to my favorite way of lifting which is full body.
That is a good reason for a change of pace. My suggestion would be to do 'high volume' and keep the reps pretty high. Work up to say 15-20 sets of 12-15 reps per muscle group. Use the continuous tension principle and keep the weight 'in play'.
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  #14  
Unread 02-26-2014, 07:13 AM
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mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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My reasoning is

a) that it's going to cause lots of glycogen depletion and thus improve glycogen storage capacity and energetic growth (at least in the short-term).

b) improve local muscle endurance and work capacity.

c) *maybe* have a gatekeeper effect via satellite cell activation (speculation).

d) give the joints and mind a rest from heavy/heavier training.

e) just in general do something completely different and get a mental boost.

f) voodoo factor

g) maybe improve mind-muscle connection.

h) endorphins

Last edited by mrlakramondas : 02-26-2014 at 07:15 AM.
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  #15  
Unread 02-26-2014, 07:39 AM
T.G. T.G. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
My reasoning is

a) that it's going to cause lots of glycogen depletion and thus improve glycogen storage capacity and energetic growth (at least in the short-term).

b) improve local muscle endurance and work capacity.

c) *maybe* have a gatekeeper effect via satellite cell activation (speculation).

d) give the joints and mind a rest from heavy/heavier training.

e) just in general do something completely different and get a mental boost.

f) voodoo factor

g) maybe improve mind-muscle connection.

h) endorphins
Thanks you all for the detail responses.

Mr. Lak and others if you don't mind let me get your opinion on this.

At 6 feet 190 pounds and bodyfat of 15% my chest only measures about 44 inches. I tore my bicep tendon / pec about 10 years ago and I have never fully recovered strength wise.

I am not certain but I am pretty sure over the years my front delts and triceps probably fire off and take over more of the load than my pecs just because:

1) The pec / bicep injury years ago cause the other muscle groups (Shoulders and triceps) to try to kick into play and work around the injury.

2) My strength is only about 70% of what it use to be 10 years ago in any chest press b/c of fear of re-injury and etc.

So since my chest is a lagging bodypart even after always putting it first in my workouts should all my exercises for chest be based around a fly or isolation for a while to bring this muscle group up?

Would this be a case for an isolation exercise to take out the shoulders and triceps?

I know all about block training and specialization...I guess I am more curious is to if I should take away all compounds lifts for my pecs for the next couple of months to just isolate the weak muscle group...or is this a bad idea. I basically haven't done flys much the past several years if not the past 10 years.

Second question is does / or is pre-exhaustion real or a myth? In other words would working pec dec / flys first and exhausting the chest muscle before a chest press help...or would it hurt b/c I can't use a high of load?

Thanks

Last edited by T.G. : 02-26-2014 at 07:44 AM.
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  #16  
Unread 02-26-2014, 08:11 AM
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muki muki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.G. View Post
Second question is does / or is pre-exhaustion real or a myth? In other words would working pec dec / flys first and exhausting the chest muscle before a chest press help...or would it hurt b/c I can't use a high of load?

Thanks
Of course it is not a myth. Time under tension is very important for growth.
And supersetting exercises for the same muscle group is a great way to achieve that (and spare some time in the gym).

Weather to use pre or post exhaust approach is your choice. Both have their own rationale and benefits behind and I would include them both.

If you ahve trouble activating your chest during bp, try pre exhaust with flys.
Your max could be lowered but that should not bother you.
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  #17  
Unread 02-26-2014, 08:16 AM
hdaniel hdaniel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlakramondas View Post
My reasoning is

a) that it's going to cause lots of glycogen depletion and thus improve glycogen storage capacity and energetic growth (at least in the short-term).

b) improve local muscle endurance and work capacity.

c) *maybe* have a gatekeeper effect via satellite cell activation (speculation).

d) give the joints and mind a rest from heavy/heavier training.

e) just in general do something completely different and get a mental boost.

f) voodoo factor

g) maybe improve mind-muscle connection.

h) endorphins
in reference to a.You say in the short term?So training in really high rep ranges with high volume getting "da pump" can train your muscles to store more glycogen if i understand you correctly but only short term?Would you mind elaborating on that?Thanks

Last edited by hdaniel : 02-26-2014 at 08:22 AM.
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  #18  
Unread 02-26-2014, 11:08 AM
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mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.G. View Post
Thanks you all for the detail responses.

Mr. Lak and others if you don't mind let me get your opinion on this.

At 6 feet 190 pounds and bodyfat of 15% my chest only measures about 44 inches. I tore my bicep tendon / pec about 10 years ago and I have never fully recovered strength wise.

I am not certain but I am pretty sure over the years my front delts and triceps probably fire off and take over more of the load than my pecs just because:

1) The pec / bicep injury years ago cause the other muscle groups (Shoulders and triceps) to try to kick into play and work around the injury.

2) My strength is only about 70% of what it use to be 10 years ago in any chest press b/c of fear of re-injury and etc.

So since my chest is a lagging bodypart even after always putting it first in my workouts should all my exercises for chest be based around a fly or isolation for a while to bring this muscle group up?

Would this be a case for an isolation exercise to take out the shoulders and triceps?

I know all about block training and specialization...I guess I am more curious is to if I should take away all compounds lifts for my pecs for the next couple of months to just isolate the weak muscle group...or is this a bad idea. I basically haven't done flys much the past several years if not the past 10 years.

Second question is does / or is pre-exhaustion real or a myth? In other words would working pec dec / flys first and exhausting the chest muscle before a chest press help...or would it hurt b/c I can't use a high of load?

Thanks
Don't remove all compound lifts but do try pre-exhaust training (and including more isolation work in general). No, pre-exhaust training isn't a myth , it can be a valuable training method for some people.

Last edited by mrlakramondas : 02-26-2014 at 11:13 AM.
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  #19  
Unread 02-26-2014, 11:34 AM
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mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdaniel View Post
in reference to a.You say in the short term?So training in really high rep ranges with high volume getting "da pump" can train your muscles to store more glycogen if i understand you correctly but only short term?Would you mind elaborating on that?Thanks
Yes, it's something you can improve (and lose) pretty quickly but those type of gains also level off after a while.

At the same time that type of training might help with long-term gains in other ways. But that is speculative and it would not be a question of only training that way. Maybe as an adjunct.

Last edited by mrlakramondas : 02-26-2014 at 11:37 AM.
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  #20  
Unread 02-28-2014, 08:27 AM
Zev Zev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
It's really quite clear from OP's post that he is asking how best to do one-part-per-week for hypertrophy purposes. Your answer is entirely unhelpful.
Oh, is it "really quite clear"? Because the original post does not contain the word "hypertrophy" or any of its synonyms. What it *does* contain, however, is the following: "But if I ever wanted to train that way for a couple months just to switch it up..."

Seems "really quite clear" to me that the OP's primary concern is alleviating boredom, not optimizing hypertrophy.
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