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  #11  
Unread 01-19-2018, 05:42 AM
w1cked w1cked is offline
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Originally Posted by nzgs View Post
I don't see why you need such a reliance on drugs just to get under 10% bodyfat (not trying to trivialise single digit bodyfat, but your attitude is all wrong).

If you want to sustain low bodyfat then I would not do very much cardio, certainly not the typical steady-state cardio people tend to advocate. You would really have to re-align your entire lifestyle around reducing stress and achieving sustained fat-loss via hormonal changes. I can suggest a few things:

-shorten your workout duration, reduce the frequency, and increase the intensity
-for cardiovascular exercise do HIIT, sparingly. Or even better, do an enjoyable sport that naturally mimics HIIT (tennis, soccer, swimming are great for this).
-avoid starvation diets. Stick to a high-protein wholefood diet, whether it's keto or paleo or IIFYM doesn't really matter so long as you are getting enough nutrients, calories are in the right ballpark, and that your diet doesn't induce stress.
-increase your sleep, both in terms of quantity and quality (this is underrated)
-eat your meals within 12 hours
-find a hobby or activity that doesn't involve constantly worrying about your bodyfat.

When people try to find the holy grail diet or drug that will keep them at single-digit bodyfat year round, its a bit of a red herring since they should be analysing the impact of their lifestyle on their hormones.
All good advice imo
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  #12  
Unread 01-19-2018, 07:53 AM
patriots2 patriots2 is offline
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Originally Posted by w1cked View Post
All good advice imo
Thatíll definitely work for many.

16-24 hour fasts May potentially help some people too, more so for dietary compliance, but thereís also the possibility they could help with stubborn fat mobilization.
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  #13  
Unread 01-19-2018, 08:06 PM
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alcahuetej alcahuetej is offline
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I've said this before on this forum, I spent about 2 years sub 10%-ish, and my hormones eventually crashed. I put on about 10 - 15 pounds, and everything was normal again.

I wasn't on a starvation diet. I was walking a lot, but otherwise only running about 15 - 20 miles/week (maybe less), and lifting 3 - 4 times per week. I was always hungry, not ravenous, but I was never full. I don't think I was ever full during the entire two years, no matter how much I ate.

Of course, I was constantly trying to get leaner, perhaps if I'd had periods of gaining mixed in over those two years, I would have been fine. I'm currently cutting, and now that I'm aware of how it feels to have your hormones crash, I hopefully can do it better this time.

What's my point? My point is, your body has a set point it's happy at. Stray too far from that and it'll cause you problems. Cross that line and you can simply accept being miserable, but lean, or gain weight.

You said your hunger goes away at 15%, it's possible you'd be fine at 12%, maybe even 10%. But there's a point for you personally, that is simply too low to maintain.

It sounds like it's somewhere between sub 10% and 15%. 10% and 12% aren't a big difference to most people, especially if you have a decent amount of muscle.

Last edited by alcahuetej : 01-19-2018 at 08:12 PM.
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  #14  
Unread 01-19-2018, 08:17 PM
w1cked w1cked is offline
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Originally Posted by alcahuetej View Post
I've said this before on this forum, I spent about 2 years sub 10%-ish, and my hormones eventually crashed. I put on about 10 - 15 pounds, and everything was normal again.

I wasn't on a starvation diet. I was walking a lot, but otherwise only running about 15 - 20 miles/week (maybe less), and lifting 3 - 4 times per week. I was always hungry, not ravenous, but I was never full. I don't think I was ever full during the entire two years, no matter how much I ate.

Of course, I was constantly trying to get leaner, perhaps if I'd had periods of gaining mixed in over those two years, I would have been fine. I'm currently cutting, and now that I'm aware of how it feels to have your hormones crash, I hopefully can do it better this time.

What's my point? My point is, your body has a set point it's happy at. Stray too far from that and it'll cause you problems. Cross that line and you can simply accept being miserable, but lean, or gain weight.

You said your hunger goes away at 15%, it's possible you'd be fine at 12%, maybe even 10%. But there's a point for you personally, that is simply too low to maintain.

It sounds like it's somewhere between sub 10% and 15%. 10% and 12% aren't a big difference to most people, especially if you have a decent amount of muscle.
To add to that the longee maintaining an "unnaturally" lean state the more food focused you become. Thinking about whats for next 2 meals, passing up calorie heavy social meals and a bunch of other disordered eatinf type traita manifest at least ime. Whar do you think?
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  #15  
Unread 01-20-2018, 01:48 AM
lostmyoldaccount lostmyoldaccount is offline
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Originally Posted by alcahuetej View Post
It sounds like it's somewhere between sub 10% and 15%. 10% and 12% aren't a big difference to most people, especially if you have a decent amount of muscle.
Not bad advice. I might slowly bulk to around 12%.

That's where my strength started tanking anyway. In 2016 I benched 355 for an easy strict rep. I OHP'd 225. Now I struggle with 315 and 185 OHP.
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Half-way measures don't get very far. You can only do one thing well at a time. Trying to gain muscle while losing fat will result in failure.

Get to 10% bodyfat first while lifting weights heavy 3x a week with reduced volume. Two weeks maintenance. Bulk up slowly (1 lb weight gain per week max), focus on getting stronger, measure body composition changes often.
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  #16  
Unread 01-20-2018, 01:57 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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OP, meaning no disrespect, is among those on the forum who never spent enough time trying to build up their muscle mass while living within a plausible and easily sustainable body fat range.

There's something of a vicious cycle here. If OP were more muscly, chances are he'd be happy with a real 12% and wouldn't feel the compulsion to try to get lower. His quest for ever lower body fat levels stem from the fact that, to him, it never looks good enough. But by being hell-bent on single digits, he is in effect making it impossible to do the one thing which WOULD turn his physique around: namely, another 5kg or so of lean muscle.

This story has appeared innumerable times on these boards over the past few years, and it's always the same: the OP says he is failing, but you find that he's failing because he's set himself up to fail.

This isn't a case of needing to work on the macros, but a case of needing to work on the mindset.
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  #17  
Unread 01-20-2018, 03:46 AM
lostmyoldaccount lostmyoldaccount is offline
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I think you got me confused with someone else, lol.
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Half-way measures don't get very far. You can only do one thing well at a time. Trying to gain muscle while losing fat will result in failure.

Get to 10% bodyfat first while lifting weights heavy 3x a week with reduced volume. Two weeks maintenance. Bulk up slowly (1 lb weight gain per week max), focus on getting stronger, measure body composition changes often.
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  #18  
Unread 01-20-2018, 05:43 AM
Heterodox Heterodox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmyoldaccount View Post
probably my hunger ends at around 15%

I just want to stay lean as long as possible. I just came off a long diet but maintaining now seems harder than the diet itself.
This is your problem, You need to maintain for a while until your body becomes accustomed to your need weight and body fat %. 10% is possible to maintain without too much discomfort for a natty, it is on the high end of the scale in terms of difficulty and about the maximum any natty would want to maintain on long term, Sub 10% is only for the short term, contest and photo shoots, maybe for a few weeks of the summer for the beach or a holiday for some of the more extreme people out there.

The symptoms you describe are applicable for people of all bodyfat %'s coming off a long diet.
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  #19  
Unread 01-20-2018, 08:42 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Originally Posted by lostmyoldaccount View Post
I think you got me confused with someone else, lol.
Lol yes, I mixed you with lightning or someone
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  #20  
Unread 01-20-2018, 04:23 PM
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kyoun1e kyoun1e is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
OP, meaning no disrespect, is among those on the forum who never spent enough time trying to build up their muscle mass while living within a plausible and easily sustainable body fat range.
If the OP can do a solid rep at 315 - 355 I'd have to think he has a decent amount of muscle no?

Maybe the OP can post a pic. Curious.
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