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  #1  
Unread 05-31-2011, 04:54 PM
Misko Misko is offline
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Default Diabetes in family....efficacy of TKD or CKD?

My Dad and uncles have diabetes, onset in their late 40's and 50's. I will be 50 in August. Have always been active, currently weight train 3x per week and low intensity fasting cardio 4-5x per week with HIIT cardio 1-2x per week. I have tried keto diets.....I lose too much muscle and can't feed my addiction to the "pump". TKD seems to be working OK, but fat loss is not what I want it to be, neither is muscle mass maintenance/increase. I'm just carbophobic with my family history. I am very anxious to try CKD with refeeds, just somewhat paranoid about it's effects on insulin sensitivity and I want to avoid at all costs the diabetic family thing. Any help and/or experience with the effects of these diets and how they might relate to my situation would be appreciated.
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  #2  
Unread 05-31-2011, 10:55 PM
popupwindow popupwindow is offline
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Yeah, CKD refeeds are very anabolic and thus great for muscle gain and muscle maintenance on a diet, but probably not ideal for someone with genetically poor insulin sensitivity, which would only be compounded by low carbing during the week. So I'd do a TKD style diet with enough carbs around your weight workouts to train intensely and get your pump on.

In terms of fat loss, you might need to re-adjust your calories, how many are you currently eating, what's your height, weight and bf%? And perhaps cut back on the HIIT stuff, or maybe even take a 2 week diet break.
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  #3  
Unread 06-01-2011, 07:05 AM
timmysdaman timmysdaman is offline
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You definitely want to avoid the diabetes thing, and for me, refeeds made a bad problem (borderline diabetes that I didn't know about ) much much worse (full blown diabetes). I do five hour refeeds after lifting 2 times a week, but that's about all the carbs I can handle, and I inject insulin.

It's easy to know if you can handle it or not: buy a blood glucose meter. If 1 hour after a carby meal your blood sugar is > 140 (if you use the American units), you need to cut back. This is the foolproof method to know how close you are to diabetes. I wish I had done that long ago.
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  #4  
Unread 06-01-2011, 07:26 AM
Misko Misko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popupwindow View Post
Yeah, CKD refeeds are very anabolic and thus great for muscle gain and muscle maintenance on a diet, but probably not ideal for someone with genetically poor insulin sensitivity, which would only be compounded by low carbing during the week. So I'd do a TKD style diet with enough carbs around your weight workouts to train intensely and get your pump on.

In terms of fat loss, you might need to re-adjust your calories, how many are you currently eating, what's your height, weight and bf%? And perhaps cut back on the HIIT stuff, or maybe even take a 2 week diet break.
I'm getting 2500-3000 calories, at the higher end on weight-training days. Height is 6'2", weight is 235, bf% is 17-18 (estimate). Basically all meals are protein/fat except around training and post-workout meal is protein/carb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timmysdaman View Post
You definitely want to avoid the diabetes thing, and for me, refeeds made a bad problem (borderline diabetes that I didn't know about ) much much worse (full blown diabetes). I do five hour refeeds after lifting 2 times a week, but that's about all the carbs I can handle, and I inject insulin.

It's easy to know if you can handle it or not: buy a blood glucose meter. If 1 hour after a carby meal your blood sugar is > 140 (if you use the American units), you need to cut back. This is the foolproof method to know how close you are to diabetes. I wish I had done that long ago.
I like the idea of checking with glucose meter. I'm going to try this.
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  #5  
Unread 06-01-2011, 11:35 AM
timmysdaman timmysdaman is offline
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There is some variability over how accurate the meters are, accu-check probably being the best, but that really shouldn't matter in your case, because you don't inject insulin. A reading of 145 is more or less the same as 140, 180 is not. When in doubt, wash your hands thoroughly, and test again.

The accu-check lance, however, is by far the most painless way I have found to prick fingers, and I have used many. Its not cheap, unless you buy their meter, and then it comes free. For good info how to do it, go here: http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/19774432.php
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  #6  
Unread 06-01-2011, 03:45 PM
easyrhino easyrhino is offline
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timmy, you have type 1 or type 2 diabetes?
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  #7  
Unread 06-01-2011, 04:02 PM
timmysdaman timmysdaman is offline
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Type 2, but it was caught late enough that I have lost significant beta cells. So I have many Type 1 tendencies, without having lost any of the "fun" of type 2.
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  #8  
Unread 06-01-2011, 04:33 PM
popupwindow popupwindow is offline
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Sounds like your fat loss has stalled because you're eating too many calories, I'd cut calories a bit and stick to say 75-150g carbs/day, keeping more of them pre and post workout.
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  #9  
Unread 06-05-2011, 05:32 AM
gnost gnost is offline
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75-150g of carbs a day is a gigantic amount for someone who has Misko's heredity (and I have diabetes on both sides of the family, so not just pushing theories here).
It looks like the problem is as simple as too many calories.
As for refeeds, these are quite dangerous for us insulin-challenged people, so we cannot afford to take literally what Lyle wrote in the books because his advice is directed at people who don't have insulin problems.
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  #10  
Unread 06-05-2011, 03:34 PM
popupwindow popupwindow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnost View Post
75-150g of carbs a day is a gigantic amount for someone who has Misko's heredity
That's 1/3 to 1/2 of what most diabetes associations recommend, and fine for a diabetic person who is exercising regularly. In fact, exercising regularly and intensely on a VLC diet would be more stressful on the body.
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