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  #31  
Unread 06-04-2010, 07:30 AM
J. Adams's Avatar
J. Adams J. Adams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles.Buckley View Post
search for my thread on body temperature correlation using bromo at various dosing levels in a large calorie deficit.
I read it. And I think what you did was counter-productive. You did not see what happened to your prolactin levels. Having prolactin near zero is not something that is desirable in normal healthy people. Besides, from your thread, it was evident that it was your protein intake that mainly regulated basal body temp while using bromocriptine. I have yet to see a good justification for going over 5mg in terms of fat loss and health.
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  #32  
Unread 06-04-2010, 08:17 AM
Myles.Buckley Myles.Buckley is offline
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Before you finish your jumping to conclusions about prolactin levels, consider the half-life of bromo.
__________________
1. Ketosis doesn't matter.
2. Strength training+Protein+DHA/EPA+veggies+vitamins&minerals DOES.
3. Search BEFORE you ask questions.
4. Use google as well - Add "site:lylemcdonald.com". Google can find those short strings of letters.
5. You are not a rodent so follow up with pubmed (http://pubmed.org) use "+human" "-rat" "-mouse" modifiers
6. Check the STICKY threads.
7. use google to find all my posts.
8. Supplement evidence
9. Private message are cheerfully ignored.
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  #33  
Unread 06-04-2010, 04:05 PM
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J. Adams J. Adams is offline
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Like most people, you're forgetting that bromocriptine has quite a few metabolites, that stay in your bloodstream for up to 120hrs.

Fate and disposition of bromocriptine in animals and man. I: structure elucidation of the metabolites.

Maurer G, Schreier E, Delaborde S, Loosli HR, Nufer R, Shukla AP.
Abstract

A total of 16 metabolites of bromocriptine could be isolated from rat bile and incubates of rat liver cell preparations using [6-methyl-14C]bromocriptine as substrate. Separation and purification was achieved by reversed-phase liquid chromatography and preparative thin-layer chromatography in conjunction with radioactivity monitoring. Structure elucidation was based on spectroscopic data (UV, IR, NMR, EI- and FD-MS) and the results of amino acid analysis after acid hydrolysis. Based on the identified metabolites four principal transformation process could be described: -Hydrolytic cleavage of the amide bridge leading to the formation of 2-bromolysergic acid amide (3) and 2-bromolysergic acid (7). -epimerization at position 8 of the bromolysergic acid moiety to the iso-derivatives (isobromocriptine, 2-bromo-isolysergic acid (6), its amide (1), etc.) -regiospecific oxidation at position 8' in the proline fragment generating stereoisomeric 8'-hydroxy-bromocriptines (21-24) -further oxidation of the 8'-hydroxylated derivatives by either the introduction of a second hydroxy group at position 9' to give dihydroxylated derivatives (detected as conjugates with glucuronic acid: metabolites 29, 30 and 31), or the opening of the proline ring under formation of the metabolites 4 and 5 containing glutamic acid instead of proline (7', 8'-seco- 8'-carboxy-bromocriptines). It is suggested that the primary and principal metabolic attack occurs at the proline fragment of the drug. In contrast to the biotransformation of ergoline compounds, none of the bromocriptine metabolites detected showed oxidative transformations in the lysergic acid half of the molecule.

PMID: 7166180 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Metabolite Involvement in Bromocriptine-Induced Prolactin Inhibition in Rats


Abstract

Bromocriptine (BCT) is a dopamine D2 receptor agonist used for the treatment of Parkinsonís disease and hyperprolactinemic disorders. After oral administration, BCT is metabolized into mono- or dihydroxylated metabolites. To study how these metabolites influence parent drug pharmacodynamics, we administered BCT to rats intravenously (1 mg/kg i.v.) and orally (10 mg/kg p.o.) and measured the inhibition of prolactin secretion. Despite similar areas under the curve for BCT, the duration of the effect was 36 h after oral and only 18 h after intravenous administration. Pharmacokinetic/pharmacodynamic models were used to correlate the concentration of BCT in the effect compartment with the lowering of prolactin. One of these models (effect compartment model) showed that the effective concentration (EC50) at the site of action was much lower after oral (0.56 nM) than after intravenous administration (3.68 nM). In contrast, the EC50 values based on BCT metabolite data were in the same range for both administrations. These observations suggested the activity of one or more BCT metabolites. To confirm this hypothesis, hydroxylated metabolites of BCT (producedin vitro by rat liver microsomes) were administered i.v. (100 μg/kg) in rats. We found that monohydroxylated BCT was able to lower prolactin secretion like BCT. Dihydroxylated metabolites, as well as monohydroxylated metabolites, were effective in reducing in vitro prolactin secretion. Because we demonstrated that the concentration of hydroxylated metabolites after oral administration is 55-fold that of BCT, it can be concluded that BCT activity in the pituitary after oral administration is mediated by its metabolites.
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  #34  
Unread 06-04-2010, 09:02 PM
Myles.Buckley Myles.Buckley is offline
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RATS, please find the human rates of metabolite fixing and elimination.

two things for you that may confound your assumptions.
1. I take my bromo sublingually (under the tongue) - effectively bypassing the liver, so my metabolite clearing rate may be extended.

2. I did get full blood panels prior to and post testing in that thread - my prolactin levels, FSH levels and test levels were "normal" before and "low but still normal", "Normal" and "slightly higher" **(IN that order) at the end.
__________________
1. Ketosis doesn't matter.
2. Strength training+Protein+DHA/EPA+veggies+vitamins&minerals DOES.
3. Search BEFORE you ask questions.
4. Use google as well - Add "site:lylemcdonald.com". Google can find those short strings of letters.
5. You are not a rodent so follow up with pubmed (http://pubmed.org) use "+human" "-rat" "-mouse" modifiers
6. Check the STICKY threads.
7. use google to find all my posts.
8. Supplement evidence
9. Private message are cheerfully ignored.
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  #35  
Unread 06-04-2010, 09:21 PM
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J. Adams J. Adams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles.Buckley View Post
RATS, please find the human rates of metabolite fixing and elimination.

two things for you that may confound your assumptions.
1. I take my bromo sublingually (under the tongue) - effectively bypassing the liver, so my metabolite clearing rate may be extended.

2. I did get full blood panels prior to and post testing in that thread - my prolactin levels, FSH levels and test levels were "normal" before and "low but still normal", "Normal" and "slightly higher" **(IN that order) at the end.
Is that seriously your argument....That eliminating a first pass by the liver is going to get rid of a statistically significant amount of metabolites?
Well, I have news for you. It's not.

I also think that before you start making the conclusions you're making, you should read up on the actual pharmokinetics of bromocriptine (Which you clearly have not done) What you're suggesting to other people (That 7.5mg/day of bromo is perfectly fine) is something that most scrupulous people would consider entering dangerous territory. There is a point in the dosage-response curve for any drug were the cons outweigh the pros. And so far, I have not read one thing to convince me that anything more than 5mg is desirable for the purposes of fat loss and general health.
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  #36  
Unread 06-04-2010, 11:15 PM
Myles.Buckley Myles.Buckley is offline
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Words mean things.

1. read carefully my point #1 from my previous post. Did you notice the word "may" - i.e. it could - I did not say it WOULD. .

2. please comment on the 2nd point I made in my prior post. in particular the prolactin results after being on 7.5mg dosing levels. (I ended up running my 7.5mg test for eight weeks - that's two whole months.)


Let me close off this post with some agreements and a comment.

first: bromo is cleared in a non linear fashion - and the direct D2 actions are cleared at different rates in different tissues

2nd: 5mg is the most likely upper limit - as even the FDA approved VeroScience's dosing regimen for patients with type 2 diabetes is close to that. Cycloset (bromo under a new trade name) dosing starts at 0.8mg and titrates up to 4.8mg per day.

comment: Lets not divulge all the bromo book secrets here - folks really should buy Lyle's book.
__________________
1. Ketosis doesn't matter.
2. Strength training+Protein+DHA/EPA+veggies+vitamins&minerals DOES.
3. Search BEFORE you ask questions.
4. Use google as well - Add "site:lylemcdonald.com". Google can find those short strings of letters.
5. You are not a rodent so follow up with pubmed (http://pubmed.org) use "+human" "-rat" "-mouse" modifiers
6. Check the STICKY threads.
7. use google to find all my posts.
8. Supplement evidence
9. Private message are cheerfully ignored.
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  #37  
Unread 07-19-2010, 07:59 PM
jimmypop13 jimmypop13 is offline
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Maybe I suck at search but I couldnt find anything about whether adding clen to bromo would work or not. I know the book said you couldnt combine them but it said the same about EC and Lyle said its okay to combine them now. I just read the book along with several other of Lyle's, and my bromo hasnt arrived in the mail yet; but cutting in the past, ive found that running EC for 3-4 weeks and then switching to clen for a week gives me great results. I cant handle running clen for two weeks.
Thanks
-Chris
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  #38  
Unread 07-20-2010, 02:48 PM
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dangerroadhumps dangerroadhumps is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles.Buckley View Post
1. I take my bromo sublingually (under the tongue) - effectively bypassing the liver,.
is that with standard oral bromo?
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  #39  
Unread 07-20-2010, 05:58 PM
Myles.Buckley Myles.Buckley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerroadhumps View Post
is that with standard oral bromo?
It's certainly not the normal delivery method, but it's what I use to eliminate the emetic nausea when taking it the usual way without food.
__________________
1. Ketosis doesn't matter.
2. Strength training+Protein+DHA/EPA+veggies+vitamins&minerals DOES.
3. Search BEFORE you ask questions.
4. Use google as well - Add "site:lylemcdonald.com". Google can find those short strings of letters.
5. You are not a rodent so follow up with pubmed (http://pubmed.org) use "+human" "-rat" "-mouse" modifiers
6. Check the STICKY threads.
7. use google to find all my posts.
8. Supplement evidence
9. Private message are cheerfully ignored.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Unread 08-04-2010, 11:10 AM
dwh dwh is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 55
Default Search help please

Boring pre-amble:

About 1.5 yrs ago I got injured, couldn't work out...and as I got better...got extremely busy with work, very long hours... where there's plenty of junk food...end result...I got my fattest ever....it's awful...

Anyway, now I'm healthy enough to work out, and have a bit of time to do so... getting back to it and have motivation back too...

So I been devouring all of Lyle's articles...a bit of information overload but I'm having a ton of fun learning all this too....

Anywho, before I got a handle on what he was talking about, I saw something written by Lyle about Bromocriptine either working extremely well for some people OR having little effect...something like 50% of people.... But I can't remember in what context...was it appetite suppression only? Or what...

And I been googling, using site search and cannot for the life of me find that reference...anyone know what I'm talking about? What's the URL of that page? Thanks.

P.S. It kind of makes sense for Bromo to have that effect based on what Lyle wrote...

Take 2 people. Both weight 200 pounds w/ 30% bodyfat percentage... But what you can't see in a blood test is what their setpoint is set to in the hypothalmus. One guy might be at 205 and the other at 250. So one guy is swimming against a major current. Give him Bromo and suddenly he's in still water and the swimming is taking him places... The other fella just about gave up the fight...so the current took him ashore and he's standing in still water. You might be treating the current way out there, but he's out of the current, therefore no effect....

It's funny, but everyone has two weights. The actual weight on the body. And the weight in the brain. There are some brave people out there fighting their setpoint which might have them be a super fatty in the brain...and thin in reality... You really can't tell a book by its cover.
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