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  #21  
Unread 06-05-2018, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by fyodor View Post
There are definitely some exercises that I can't improve at doing short sets. I need to train in the 8-12 range to progress. I *hear* a lot from people on the Internet that sets of five are the way to go but it doesn't match what I see at my gym or my own personal experience. Often the discussions are full of bunk about heavy weights and compound exercises driving global metabolic changes or something.

The stuff about people stalling out because they drink too much or whatever is kind of beside the point. Obviously all of those things matter regardless of your training, but there's no reason to think that the five rep people are all drinking too much or are sleep deprived.

For the OP, the nice thing about this is that you can try it out yourself and see how it works for you. You certainly won't do real harm to anything if you spend a month working out in the 12-15 range.


Lyle has some good articles on rep ranges.

Also the book "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe makes some excellent cases for the 5 rep range in beginning trainees.
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  #22  
Unread 06-05-2018, 09:34 PM
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Here is something I'm interested in that is semi-related to these studies.

Last year I started in January and lost a bunch of weight. At some point I switched to a pushup/pullup routine for quite a few months. Then after I dropped all the fat I switched to the starting strength program (5 reps) for the fall.

Then after a 5 month layoff I lost pretty much all the muscle and gained back a good portion (not even close to all) the fat.

Now I'm going to attack it from the Starting Strength angle. I'm wondering if when I get back to the strength numbers I had in the Fall (should only take like 6 week) if I'll have the same amount of hypertrophy as I did when I did ~6 months of exercise including a ton of pushups/pullups before I started the strength routine.
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http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=23215

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  #23  
Unread 06-06-2018, 07:38 AM
AlphaBettor AlphaBettor is offline
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I think you just need to be more consistent with whatever you decide to do. That counts for more than doing a specific program or working in a specific rep range. Cut down on your drinking, work in deloads and periods of maintenance training, do whatever you have to do but you can't expect much when you take like 5 months or whatever off every year.

As far as doing a pushups/pullups routine first, that's kind of imbalanced by itself. You could fill it out more even with little or no equipment. What are you trying to accomplish?
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  #24  
Unread 06-07-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaBettor View Post
I think you just need to be more consistent with whatever you decide to do. That counts for more than doing a specific program or working in a specific rep range. Cut down on your drinking, work in deloads and periods of maintenance training, do whatever you have to do but you can't expect much when you take like 5 months or whatever off every year.

As far as doing a pushups/pullups routine first, that's kind of imbalanced by itself. You could fill it out more even with little or no equipment. What are you trying to accomplish?

Yes for now I'm sticking with the starting strength model no matter what. And I'm dead sober for the past 38 days. Pushups/pullups are just part of my routine right now.

I'm curious to see if when I get back to the lifting numbers i had in the Fall if ill have close t the same hypertrophy from just that alone as I did last year when i had that long calisthenics base prior to starting strength.

That will answer a lot of questions for me as to whether rep range matters much
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My Wild Ride to A great body in my 30s.

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=23215

Thank you Lyle. This website is a game changer once you understand the mechanisms behind fat loss/muscle gain.

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  #25  
Unread 06-09-2018, 10:09 AM
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Thought of a better way to phrase my question..

Hypothetical:

You train calisthenics for several months then switch to a power based compound lift routine for a few weeks. Your hypertrophy reaches "X" overall lets just call this 100 for simplicity sake. Your strength levels reach "Y" across the board lets just call this 100 as well.

100 represents the highest level you've ever attained personally, not your genetic ceiling for performance/appearance. This level is nowhere near your genetic max.. maybe HALF or so...


A year goes by and you haven't been diligent about training and want to give it another shot. Let's say your hypertrophy and strength levels are both at 50.

You do a week or two of calistehnics and high reps just to get adjusted to working out again before launching into a strength routine.

Once you reach your original watermark strength levels (100), will your physical appearance/hypertrophy also have reached its previous watermark of 100?

Or will you need to surpass your watermark in strength and/or resume calisthenics/high rep training to get close?
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My Wild Ride to A great body in my 30s.

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=23215

Thank you Lyle. This website is a game changer once you understand the mechanisms behind fat loss/muscle gain.

Spun my wheels for years prior to finding this site.
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  #26  
Unread 06-11-2018, 09:08 AM
AlphaBettor AlphaBettor is offline
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There's a lot going on in your questions. First, I think you're trying to jump between programs that are really imbalanced (pushups/pullups) to one that's only somewhat imbalanced (SS-- too minimalist in exercises and rep range) and they are very different in styles of training.

Read the article series on this site titled 'Periodization for Bodybuilders'. There are a lot of good ideas in there that you can apply when you program your training. One idea that is relevant here is that it's a good idea to keep different styles of training in your routine (for maintenance purposes) even if it's not the focus. So you'd try to keep a bit of higher rep work even when focusing on lower rep strength stuff. And a bit of strength work when focusing on volume/higher reps. That's the very basics of it (and there are other approaches as well, for example Westside uses a high volume of lightish hypertrophy work to complement a smaller amount of heavy and speed work.. and this is obviously for strength.)

Ok so you want to do a pushup/pullup routine and then go into strength work. You might set yourself up for a bigger upper body, at least in the short and intermediate term. This is most obvious with lats as it's the main mover in pull ups and that exercise is pretty challenging in its own right (compare it to push ups..)

You should still get some benefits in the chest/arms/delts but again, this is not really an ideal way to train. For example compare doing pushups with 3x5 bench, this is very far apart in terms of intensity. Or compare the leg work-- (nothing) vs 3x5 squats. How does this make sense?

Last edited by AlphaBettor : 06-11-2018 at 09:12 AM.
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  #27  
Unread 06-12-2018, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaBettor View Post
There's a lot going on in your questions. First, I think you're trying to jump between programs that are really imbalanced (pushups/pullups) to one that's only somewhat imbalanced (SS-- too minimalist in exercises and rep range) and they are very different in styles of training.

Read the article series on this site titled 'Periodization for Bodybuilders'. There are a lot of good ideas in there that you can apply when you program your training. One idea that is relevant here is that it's a good idea to keep different styles of training in your routine (for maintenance purposes) even if it's not the focus. So you'd try to keep a bit of higher rep work even when focusing on lower rep strength stuff. And a bit of strength work when focusing on volume/higher reps. That's the very basics of it (and there are other approaches as well, for example Westside uses a high volume of lightish hypertrophy work to complement a smaller amount of heavy and speed work.. and this is obviously for strength.)

Ok so you want to do a pushup/pullup routine and then go into strength work. You might set yourself up for a bigger upper body, at least in the short and intermediate term. This is most obvious with lats as it's the main mover in pull ups and that exercise is pretty challenging in its own right (compare it to push ups..)

You should still get some benefits in the chest/arms/delts but again, this is not really an ideal way to train. For example compare doing pushups with 3x5 bench, this is very far apart in terms of intensity. Or compare the leg work-- (nothing) vs 3x5 squats. How does this make sense?

My question is really just more of a hypothetical.. in the fall if I reached certain strength levels... I wonder if my physical appearance will be similar if I reach those similar strength levels again even if I dont put in several weeks/months of "hypertrophy" rep range work first.

I feel like I wasted a lot of time doing the whole Planet fitness, machine based work, light free weights, calisthenics, walking, non-compound lifts last spring... It took months of an extreme amount of dedication to get minor results. Granted, I was also dieting for much of this time to lose fat...so that played a huge part no doubt.

When I got access to a ~$90 million collegiate gym due to going back for MBA classes my strength and hypertrophy shot up in a matter of weeks from focusing on doing squats, bench, OHP, and deadlifts along with a bit (but significantly less) pullups, bicep curls, cable work, etc... Granted, I was also eating a lot during this time period which played a huge part no doubt.


For now I'm going to stick to the plan. Get my compound lifts up to what I feel like are reasonable numbers that I can perform safely before my injuries become limiting factors. Then switch over to more hypertrophy based exercises.

I just feel like if you're not putting up reasonable numbers in the core compound lifts you are leaving a lot on the table doing high rep ranges with light weights.

The increases in strength come so freaking fast when you start a strength program i dont see why you wouldnt' take those easy gains first before bothering to commit to higher rep ranges.


Now I do think supplementing with high rep ranges on things like biceps, calves, pullups, etc certainly makes sense. As well as working on mobility and pre-hab stuff like rotator cuffs.
__________________
My Wild Ride to A great body in my 30s.

http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=23215

Thank you Lyle. This website is a game changer once you understand the mechanisms behind fat loss/muscle gain.

Spun my wheels for years prior to finding this site.
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