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  #11  
Unread 01-13-2016, 02:08 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
I wouldn't think anyone (male) would have a set point of 40%. Even 25% the OP used seems too high.
Why? 25% is quite a typical set point in the average overweight population. I'm in no doubt it can be considerably higher in the morbidly obese.
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  #12  
Unread 01-13-2016, 06:26 AM
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alcahuetej alcahuetej is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
It's actually an incredibly good question. By continuously fighting against the body fat level that the body is driving you towards, is your endocrine system affected? I guess it's possible, but I can't imagine it's tremendously well studied.
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Originally Posted by lylemcdonald View Post
At best there is the data on caloric restriction

I think any fears are greatly unfounded. Maybe if you're trying to stay sub 10% and your body eats your brain like it did to Martin
Dieting down from 25% to 12-14% may not. As you indicated here, maintaining sub 10% when your set point is much higher is a different story.

But I imagine it would be hard to find a large population of people who were formerly overweight/obese that dieted down well past their set point to sub 10% and maintained that. Anyone who's maintaining that without problems likely has above average genetics.
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  #13  
Unread 01-13-2016, 03:29 PM
jimjack jimjack is offline
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I have heard (possibly from lyle) that it is less "set points" and more "settling points" that can and will change over time.
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  #14  
Unread 01-13-2016, 03:50 PM
crazyhorse crazyhorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
Why? 25% is quite a typical set point in the average overweight population. I'm in no doubt it can be considerably higher in the morbidly obese.
Thinking of a set point as where the body fights back hard and makes it really difficult to lose more weight via metabolism, insane hunger, NEAT reduction etc.

In my experience while people can settle at 25% bf it is generally not hard for them to start losing weight. They usually get stuck there because their efforts are half-arsed.
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  #15  
Unread 01-14-2016, 01:13 AM
BigPecsPeter BigPecsPeter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhorse View Post
Thinking of a set point as where the body fights back hard and makes it really difficult to lose more weight via metabolism, insane hunger, NEAT reduction etc.

In my experience while people can settle at 25% bf it is generally not hard for them to start losing weight. They usually get stuck there because their efforts are half-arsed.
You don't get what set point is.

It doesn't mean that it's hard to lose weight, but rather that you'll ultimately wind up back where you were (without concerted effort to avoid it).
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  #16  
Unread 01-15-2016, 05:56 AM
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alcahuetej alcahuetej is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPecsPeter View Post
It's actually an incredibly good question. By continuously fighting against the body fat level that the body is driving you towards, is your endocrine system affected?
The timing of this thread is interesting.

Most of my adult life I have been between 170 - 180ish at 5'9", and have been as high as 203. Three years ago at 185 lbs. I made a concerted effort to slowly lean out and maintain that. I've been at 158 - 160ish for a year now, but I've been in the low 160s for even longer. For reference, the photo in my avatar is two years ago, and I was ~168 lbs.

I regularly get checked for diabetes, cholesterol, thyroid (it's in my family) and I also had my testosterone checked.

My hospital lists the healthy range for testosterone as 280 to 800 ng/dL. Mine is 191.

Their range for free T is 60 - 185 pg/mL. Mine is 27.
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  #17  
Unread 01-15-2016, 05:34 PM
Neutrogena Neutrogena is offline
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If maintaining large weight loss is metabolically similar to being in a state of perpetual caloric restriction, it seems like there could be a potential upside for longevity (if you're a mouse)? At least that's what those longevity practitioners believe in regard to caloric restriction.

Inb4 get fat and lose weight to live longer.
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  #18  
Unread 01-16-2016, 06:06 AM
jimjack jimjack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcahuetej View Post
The timing of this thread is interesting.

Most of my adult life I have been between 170 - 180ish at 5'9", and have been as high as 203. Three years ago at 185 lbs. I made a concerted effort to slowly lean out and maintain that. I've been at 158 - 160ish for a year now, but I've been in the low 160s for even longer. For reference, the photo in my avatar is two years ago, and I was ~168 lbs.

I regularly get checked for diabetes, cholesterol, thyroid (it's in my family) and I also had my testosterone checked.

My hospital lists the healthy range for testosterone as 280 to 800 ng/dL. Mine is 191.

Their range for free T is 60 - 185 pg/mL. Mine is 27.
So don't you think it would be better if you put on maybe 10 pounds?
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  #19  
Unread 01-16-2016, 08:11 AM
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hugsaredrugs hugsaredrugs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjack View Post
So don't you think it would be better if you put on maybe 10 pounds?
Or got a prescription for testosterone...
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  #20  
Unread 01-16-2016, 12:05 PM
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alcahuetej alcahuetej is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjack View Post
So don't you think it would be better if you put on maybe 10 pounds?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugsaredrugs View Post
Or got a prescription for testosterone...
Maybe one of these, maybe both. I'm going to tell the doctor everything about my life style and diet (not that he already doesn't know), and go with his recommendation. I'm 33, and at 26 my levels were 627. I'm not sure putting on 10 pounds will make my test levels go up over 300.

I also have varicoceles in both testicles which can cause low T, this is why I was tested back in 2008. I also have high cholesterol in my family, and dropping the last 10 - 20 pounds improved that dramatically (I've always eaten a healthy diet).

Bottomline, those testosterone levels are way too low, and I'm symptomatic. Whatever route they suggest, I'll take.
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