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  #11  
Unread 09-25-2012, 02:13 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigglypuffs View Post
Not to mention it is exceedingly unpleasant to use.
Only at higher doses. The current best use protocols are lower dose for more extended periods. The effects are smaller but sides are minimized.
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  #12  
Unread 10-15-2012, 09:20 AM
Nitrosoxide Nitrosoxide is offline
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Where would the most reliable source on the newer protocols be?
It'd be nice to know how to use it safely.
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  #13  
Unread 10-16-2012, 01:43 PM
@Turbo @Turbo is offline
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200mg ed or eod for the duration of your cut is a good protocol if going for iso caloric diet.

for CKD and ud2 DNP can be used during the depletion stage to great effect.
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  #14  
Unread 11-30-2012, 01:09 PM
aedan aedan is offline
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Do you have any information about how liver toxic it?
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  #15  
Unread 11-30-2012, 01:48 PM
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There's a fairly comprehensive report here: Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry: DNP Profile It's pretty heavy reading.
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"A man who wants to do something will find a way; a man who doesn't will find an excuse." Stephen Dooley, Jr.
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  #16  
Unread 11-30-2012, 03:03 PM
Birdoftruth Birdoftruth is offline
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Default Hepatic effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by aedan View Post
Do you have any information about how liver toxic it?
Quote:
Gastrointestinal Effects. Clinical signs in workmen exposed to 2,4-DNP in the French munitions industry included anorexia followed by nausea and vomiting (Perkins 1919). Autopsies of fatal cases revealed no characteristic lesions. Details of this study are provided in Section 2.2.1.1; exposure levels, durations, and incidences were not characterized.
No studies were located regarding gastrointestinal effects in animals after inhalation exposure to 2,4-DNP.

Hepatic Effects. Autopsies of workers who died from exposure to 2,4-DNP in the French munitions industry did not reveal any characteristic lesions; no consistent microscopic changes of the liver were revealed during microscopic examination (Perkins 1919). Details of this study are provided in Section 2.2.1.l; exposure levels, durations, and incidences were not characterized.
No studies were located regarding hepatic effects in animals after inhalation exposure to 2,4-DNP.


Renal Effects. Autopsies of workers who died from exposure to 2,4-DNP in the French munitions industry did not reveal any characteristic lesions; no consistent changes of the kidney were revealed during microscopic examination (Perkins 1919). Details of this study are provided in Section 2.2.1.1; exposure levels, durations, and incidences were not characterized.
No studies were located regarding renal effects in animals after inhalation exposure to 2,4-DNP.
One thing I did not like from the report that clicker posted was that the ranges for people getting cataracts was a low range like 1 to 4 mg/kg a day

Last edited by Birdoftruth : 11-30-2012 at 03:05 PM.
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  #17  
Unread 11-30-2012, 03:39 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Some good information on the cataract issue. Conciliator did some serious homework on this thoguh I don't think he ever published the manual or whatever he intended to.

This was kind of a neat paper. compared DNP to thyroid medication and other (at the time relatively new approaches) and more or less concluded that DNP Was the safer/more effective drug

***
Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2007 Nov;10(6):671-8.
Mitochondrial uncoupling as a target in the treatment of obesity.

Costford S, Gowing A, Harper ME.
Source

Department of Biochemistry Microbiology and Immunology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Ottawa, 451 Smyth Road, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K1H 8M5.

Abstract

PURPOSE OF REVIEW:

Obesity is associated with many health problems and its prevalence is rapidly increasing worldwide. Very few pharmaceutical compounds are available for obesity treatment. Strategies for the development of compounds can be targeted to the outcomes of reduced dietary energy intake and/or increased energy expenditure/thermogenesis. In this review, we focus on recent discoveries that advance our understanding of mitochondrial uncoupling as a target for the treatment of obesity. There are various mechanisms whereby uncoupling can occur and for the purpose of this review, we elaborate upon the uncoupling that can occur (1) through the original uncoupling protein, UCP1, in brown adipocytes, or in 'converted' white adipose tissue, and (2) in skeletal muscle.
RECENT FINDINGS:

Studies have identified a number of novel receptors and regulatory proteins involved in the emergence of brown adipocytes in white adipose tissue. Molecular and pharmacologic approaches in knockout and transgenic mice have demonstrated their relevance to obesity treatment. Recent research into uncoupling mechanisms in skeletal muscle indicates that uncoupling can occur through basal and inducible processes.
SUMMARY:

Uncoupling is a naturally occurring phenomenon whose underlying mechanisms require substantial further study for the development of antiobesity therapies.
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  #18  
Unread 01-22-2013, 06:54 PM
Nitrosoxide Nitrosoxide is offline
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Lyle why not consider writing a decent article on DNP? It seems no respected individual has really given it much thought since Dan Duchaine.

I mean yes you've touched on it in super old Q&As. However, I feel new info has been dug up since then thanks to Conciliator. I know he wanted to write a pamphlet on it, but many years have past since he proposed it.

Plus there is so much misinformation (e.g. historical inaccuracies, crazy dosing ideas) out there that someone needs to set the record straight in something better than message board posts.
Right now it's literally a matter of trying to find Conciliator & others opinions on it and then lumping the good info together.

Anyways I do wish there was a good definitive article on it.
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  #19  
Unread 01-22-2013, 07:05 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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I haven't done the research though I'm not shocked Conciliator never wrote his thing
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  #20  
Unread 01-23-2013, 08:49 AM
RobertD RobertD is offline
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Just wanted to follow up on this. I'm now 5 weeks into my first cut using DNP.
Best cut I've done to date. (And I've done a lot of different things..)

Here's what I'm doing:

2 weeks diet + DNP
2 weeks maintenance + UD2.0 style refeed/training at the start. (after waiting 4 days for most of the DNP to clear my system)
2 week diet + DNP
Maintenance in between the two runs with a small surplus on training days to rebuild some muscle I possibly lost. A low dose DNP becomes less effective relatively fast and (according to Conciliator) a two week break is enough to counteract this. Also thought I'd just follow Lyle's RFL cat1 protocol a bit and keep it to two weeks at a time because I'm running a hefty deficit as well.

DNP dose: 200 mg a day. Have gone up to 400mg a couple of days but it was uncomfortable and my sleep quality seriously degraded. Somehow with 200mg sides are so low that it's really a lot less noticeable I'm on it than EC for example. (also it's -5 C in Holland now so no problems with heat)

Diet:
Maintenance - 1000 kcal, some days maintenance - 50%
Protein: 3.0-3.3gr per kg bodyweight. So about 230-250gr
Carbs: 75-125gr
Fat: the rest.

Intermittent fasting. Helps me with hunger issues. And I like to eat a big meal before I go to bed this is also why I eat most of my carbs at the last meal (which is the biggest meal) because it makes me sleep well. Going to bed hungry really rustles my jimmies more than anything else on diet.

Supps
A lot of EC, 4 doses of 20-30mg+200mg caffeine every 2-3 hours. Some coffee in between. I tolerate stimulants very well.
Multi vitamin,
Calcium/magnesium,
Fish Oil,
Green tea,
NAC,
Vitamin C, E and D.

Workout
Upper/Lower split, ABA 3 days a week, RPT

Upper:
Bench
2-3 sets: 5,6,8 reps
Military Press
1-2 sets 8,9
Weighted chin ups
2 sets 5,6
Seated Rows
2 sets, 8,9
Side Raises/Biceps/Triceps
1 set of 10-12

Lower
Squat
3 sets of 6,8,10
RLD
1-2 sets of 8,12
Gluteham raises
1 set of 8
Calf Raises
2 sets of 10,12
Abs
2-3 sets of 8-12

Cardio: Only brisk walking about an hour a day in the dunes. Listen to some audiobooks while enjoying the snowy view.

The second run I started on 400mg DNP for the first 3 days then went on with 200mg (the stuff has to build up in your system)
Diet worked very very well, the fat seems to just melt off. Maintained strength on all lifts. Working out went just fine on DNP, only my top set bench suffered (1 rep less) but this has so far happened on all my cuts. Also when I drop the weight a bit and increase reps I can get the same 1 rep max calculation.
Can't give a good number on weight/ fat lost yet because I still have 1 week to go and pretty depleted right now but so far 5 kg lost. Don't know how much fat but I'm definitely looking a lot leaner.

Definitely going to use DNP on my next diet as well. This stuff is a god among dieting drugs...

Last edited by RobertD : 01-23-2013 at 08:54 AM.
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