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  #111  
Unread 05-18-2013, 06:10 AM
sanjeev_k_sharma sanjeev_k_sharma is offline
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Default you just did a mini-walk-through

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertD View Post
But say one has educated himself and knows what he's doing taking only low to moderate dosage (100-200. maybe 400mg max) with the additional supplements. Would you have other reasons to advise against using it?
My impression is that you just did a mini-walk-through of the phenomenon they're talking about, talking yourself progressively up in dose.
(next time I'll check the dates of what I'm replying to ...)

Last edited by sanjeev_k_sharma : 05-18-2013 at 06:14 AM.
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  #112  
Unread 05-18-2013, 07:03 AM
w1cked w1cked is offline
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Originally Posted by trn450 View Post
I'm not opposed to people taking DNP. I'm very libertarian on matters such as this. I'm opposed to personally taking DNP from a source that likely has zero qualitative and quantitative control standards. I guess one might logically feel reassured tearing the capsule apart and inspecting, but most people aren't going to do that or have a scale to weigh out the total contents of the capsule.

We can argue capsule sizes all day, 0 vs 00 and how much volume vs mass each one holds, but the reality is that we've got people taking up to 8mg/kg of DNP and others dying with as little as 20mg/kg, probably lower. This surely isn't weed.

I do imagine the vast majority of people will continue to successfully cycle without any major adverse effect, but to those of you convincing yourself it "safe" you're completely delusional and/or ignorant. That's my only point. I really don't care what you do to yourself or how it ends up.



I don't care to nanny you. See last paragraph above.

P.S. I suggest you get your dental work done in Mexico, too.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/car-cr...-statistics-2/

1/1000 chances of dying on the road in the US for any given year or so. <75 deaths from DNP overdose in 80 years. I second the notion you should stay inside and avoid needless risks of dying.
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  #113  
Unread 05-18-2013, 07:15 AM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trn450 View Post
Comparing black market DNP to crossing the road or flying on commercial air is hardly comparable. I really don't need to expand upon that statement to a man of your intellect.
Actually you do need to expand and I don't like passive aggressive crap like your last statement. The risk of death by DNP is miniscule relative to most of the choices you make in a day.

Quote:
When risk is additive, it's only wise to eliminate those things that provide little relative benefit to your life for a relatively great risk. Especially if you plan on staying out of the annual list of Darwin Awards.
Then I hope you don't eat any food (contamination), take any medications (might be tampered with), leave the house (someone might shoot you or you get hit by a car) or do anything but curl up, lay in bed and suck on a cheerio for nourishment. Then you'll die of malnutrition and inactivity of course.
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  #114  
Unread 05-18-2013, 07:42 AM
sanjeev_k_sharma sanjeev_k_sharma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjeev_k_sharma View Post
My impression is that you just did a mini-walk-through of the phenomenon they're talking about, talking yourself progressively up in dose.
(next time I'll check the dates of what I'm replying to ...)
dang ... next time I'll also read more about the subject. Seems like one needs to play with the dosing due to very, very wide individual variability.

Sounds like a really tricky drug. One needs to adjust dose, maybe by a huge amount, and the half life can be huge (I didn't find information on how much the half life can vary between people), and there's the ever present human "more must be better" tendency.

If I could find a reliable source of the pure stuff though, I'd sure love to give it a try.
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  #115  
Unread 05-18-2013, 11:51 AM
niloluiz niloluiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trn450 View Post
I'm not opposed to people taking DNP. I'm very libertarian on matters such as this. I'm opposed to personally taking DNP from a source that likely has zero qualitative and quantitative control standards. I guess one might logically feel reassured tearing the capsule apart and inspecting, but most people aren't going to do that or have a scale to weigh out the total contents of the capsule.

We can argue capsule sizes all day, 0 vs 00 and how much volume vs mass each one holds, but the reality is that we've got people taking up to 8mg/kg of DNP and others dying with as little as 20mg/kg, probably lower. This surely isn't weed.

I do imagine the vast majority of people will continue to successfully cycle without any major adverse effect, but to those of you convincing yourself it "safe" you're completely delusional and/or ignorant. That's my only point. I really don't care what you do to yourself or how it ends up.
There's no such "no-risk" when it comes to drugs, any drugs. You could buy aspirin from a reputable brand and get a spoiled batch (happened before) same with any other substance.

I agree that getting caps from online suppliers add another layer of risk to the whole thing. But simple precautions can mitigate that to acceptable levels like checking what their previous customers are reporting regarding his stuff and double checking the caps itself.

Point is, "minor dosage error" is far from what needs to happen to create a really dangerous situation. What I see is that you have preconceptions about a subject you didn't even care to study/research before coming here and spread more misinformation about it.

In the end what you think is really irrelevant to me, believe what you will.
I have nor the desire nor the time to change your opinion regarding anything.
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  #116  
Unread 05-18-2013, 12:01 PM
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lylemcd lylemcd is offline
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The difference, admittedly, is that big drug companies expend huge money for quality control.

Some bodybuilder mixing stuff up in his bathtub may not.

In that sense, I agree with trn450. Even so, if you're buying from a trusted known source, he'd have to be pretty stupid to miss a decimal point like that.
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  #117  
Unread 05-18-2013, 12:23 PM
niloluiz niloluiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjeev_k_sharma View Post
dang ... next time I'll also read more about the subject. Seems like one needs to play with the dosing due to very, very wide individual variability.

Sounds like a really tricky drug. One needs to adjust dose, maybe by a huge amount, and the half life can be huge (I didn't find information on how much the half life can vary between people), and there's the ever present human "more must be better" tendency.

If I could find a reliable source of the pure stuff though, I'd sure love to give it a try.
Based on all the research that Conciliator dug up on this, 200mg was the universal standard dosage, about 200~300mg/day. Back at '30s they sold 100mg caps OTC and prescriptions were usually two or three times per day.

The funny thing with all the hysteria about "OMG a simple mistake can cook you inside" that you will typically find in BB boarding is far from what happened during the time when DNP was widely used.
And the reason it was pulled from the market by the FDA was, surprise, not because of any LD50 related concern or perceived risks of over-dosage but rather due to reports of cataracts formation on some individuals. This was later extensively researched and it was found out that some people lack the ability to metabolize one specific byproduct of DNP on the organism.

Here's a direct quote from Conciliator about this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Conciliator
One of DNP's uncommon metabolites is a substance known as a semiquinone. These can produce substantial oxidative stress. However, the body is equipped to handle them with NADPH–semiquinone reductase. As long as your antioxidant system is normal and functioning, you shouldn't have any problems. If it's compromised, however, this quinone can result in the formation of cataracts, and possibly other adverse effects. This explains the 0.1% (1 in 1000) incidence rate of cataracts in those who took DNP in the 1930's. Accordingly, I think it's smart to take a normal daily dosage of antioxidants: 500-1000 mg/day vit C, 400-800 IU/day vit E, and if you have them, ALA, NAC, and coQ10. If you don't have these latter ones, I don't think it's worth worrying about. I would recommend against superdosing antioxidants and other ancillary supplements, which almost always causes more trouble than they prevent.
Direct link: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1#post15139271

there's a lot of valuable information about DNP in that thread.

As for adjusting the dosage, the best recommendation is to stay 1st 5 days/week at the "standard" dosage of 200mg then if desirable (very minor or no side-effects) up to no more than 400mg (individual response plays a huge role in this recommendation).

"Inferno cycles" of 500mg or more DNP is stupid and not advisable (unless you are an 200lbs+ individual which means 500mg would equate around 300mg for a smaller person) because all the research that proves the overall safety of DNP was done at moderate dosages or about 200mg/day.

Up that amount by substantial margin and you are walking into uncharted territory. I saw posts at forums about guys that used to do those inferno cycles frequently complaining about nerve degradation....

So the difference between wise utilization of this drug and dumb utilization is indeed small... one or 2 extra "caps" per day beyond safer dosages and it ceases to have a positive risk/reward ratio.

Half-life is around 36h if I'm not mistaken. But it will take more than a full week to the substance to fully leaves the system after you stop taking. Up to 15~20 days is not unheard of. 7-10 on average. The bulk of it's effects thou ceases after 24~48h after administration is interrupted.

If you have patience and some basic knowledge about capping stuff.. you can increase your peace of mind (not to mention get a more accurate control of dosage) by capping yourself.
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  #118  
Unread 05-18-2013, 01:27 PM
niloluiz niloluiz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
The difference, admittedly, is that big drug companies expend huge money for quality control.

Some bodybuilder mixing stuff up in his bathtub may not.

In that sense, I agree with trn450. Even so, if you're buying from a trusted known source, he'd have to be pretty stupid to miss a decimal point like that.
Agree 100% on that.

And to clear my point on that issue: I don't recommend no one to take pills from unknown sources in the dark, without some basic checks at least.
The fact that DNP, under therapeutic dosages is safe overall doesn't mean that "DNP from cladestine online-suppliers" are automatically safe too. I believe this is basic common-sense but it's worth mentioning anyway in case someone gets the wrong idea.
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  #119  
Unread 05-18-2013, 02:09 PM
sanjeev_k_sharma sanjeev_k_sharma is offline
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I don't suppose there are any easy tests for purity & excipients?



Quote:
Originally Posted by niloluiz View Post
Agree 100% on that.

And to clear my point on that issue: I don't recommend no one to take pills from unknown sources in the dark, without some basic checks at least.
The fact that DNP, under therapeutic dosages is safe overall doesn't mean that "DNP from cladestine online-suppliers" are automatically safe too. I believe this is basic common-sense but it's worth mentioning anyway in case someone gets the wrong idea.
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  #120  
Unread 05-18-2013, 02:41 PM
w1cked w1cked is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjeev_k_sharma View Post
I don't suppose there are any easy tests for purity & excipients?
easy? no
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