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  #1  
Unread 01-31-2018, 09:00 AM
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kyoun1e kyoun1e is offline
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Default Estimating Maintenance Calories

Attempting to lean bulk or "gaintain" as others have suggested in another one of my threads. First step is nailing maintenance calories.

I've read this article from Lyle:

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fa...c-intake.html/

And for years, I've been using 15 cal/lb. Doing the math - apprx. 185 lbs x 15 = 2775 calories for maintenance.

Since I'm absolutely paranoid of getting too fat I'd prefer to be more conservative here. Additionally, two key variables have changed in my life:

1. I'm getting old. I'll be 50 very soon. Don't think things motor along as fast as they used to, and

2. I'm insanely inactive if I'm not working out. I work remotely out of my home (which is great for this hobby), but that means I spend much time in a chair or on the sofa with a headset and a computer. And I'm a non NEAT guy. If I'm fidgeting at all I probably need to go to the hospital.

I'm also doing a UD2 mass type approach to minimize fat gain. I know I know...slow going here on mass gains. Still, I love the lower carb/semi depletion workouts early in the week and then loading up as I go heavier later in the week. Goal is to land just over maintenance for the week, but early in the week I'm under and then later in the week I'm significantly over due to carb load.

So understanding the above, would multiplying 14 or even 13 by my bodywieght be more appropriate? 14 would land me at 2590 calories.

I know some will say, "try it and see," but by the time I try it and see this so called bulk phase will be over and I'll be heading towards pre summer diet phase.

Thanks in advance.

KY
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  #2  
Unread 01-31-2018, 09:08 AM
LightCrow LightCrow is offline
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I would start at 14 instead of 15 for all of the reasons you described. Also read Lyle's recent article on muscle gaining surplus for realistic numbers of sufplus and how much muscle you should be gaining per month at this time in your career. The whole point of gaintaining or culking as Alan Aragon has called it, is so that you don't need very long, if any, dieting phases before a vacation. So you're back to culking in no time.
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Unread 01-31-2018, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by LightCrow View Post
I would start at 14 instead of 15 for all of the reasons you described. Also read Lyle's recent article on muscle gaining surplus for realistic numbers of sufplus and how much muscle you should be gaining per month at this time in your career. The whole point of gaintaining or culking as Alan Aragon has called it, is so that you don't need very long, if any, dieting phases before a vacation. So you're back to culking in no time.
Yeah, 14 seems prudent.

I've actually already started this effort, set it at 15, and I've noticed that my body weight has been increasing 1 lb per week.

Assuming this is the latest article?

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mu...ain-math.html/
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  #4  
Unread 01-31-2018, 09:37 AM
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kyoun1e kyoun1e is offline
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Wow, this is enlightening.

Lyle indicates that an intermediate or advanced lifter needs only 60-120 daily surplus calories to fuel one pound of muscle gain. My rule of thumb HAD been 300.

First order of business is determining what stage I'm at here. I've been lifting forever, have 1-2 weeks maintenance and/or off here and there, but not frequently. I'm at minimum intermediate. Results sure as hell don't indicate I'm advanced (although friends/family think I'm off the charts for my age).

I'm thinking intermediate probably is best, but maybe age limits my muscle gaining potential as well?

Regardless, I'm thinking that roughly 100 daily calorie surplus would make sense based on Lyle's reasoning. If that's the case, setting my maintenance at 2700 previously and hitting that probably has me in the ball park for muscle gain! That is, if my new maintenance should be 2590 (14 x 185).

Need to check my math here.

And holy moly...I think back to the days when I did have my maintenance at 2700 and during bulking phases went up to 3200 daily or 500+. No wonder fat gain was tremendous.
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Unread 01-31-2018, 10:18 AM
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zLeeKo zLeeKo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyoun1e View Post
Wow, this is enlightening.

Lyle indicates that an intermediate or advanced lifter needs only 60-120 daily surplus calories to fuel one pound of muscle gain. My rule of thumb HAD been 300.

First order of business is determining what stage I'm at here. I've been lifting forever, have 1-2 weeks maintenance and/or off here and there, but not frequently. I'm at minimum intermediate. Results sure as hell don't indicate I'm advanced (although friends/family think I'm off the charts for my age).

I'm thinking intermediate probably is best, but maybe age limits my muscle gaining potential as well?

Regardless, I'm thinking that roughly 100 daily calorie surplus would make sense based on Lyle's reasoning. If that's the case, setting my maintenance at 2700 previously and hitting that probably has me in the ball park for muscle gain! That is, if my new maintenance should be 2590 (14 x 185).

Need to check my math here.

And holy moly...I think back to the days when I did have my maintenance at 2700 and during bulking phases went up to 3200 daily or 500+. No wonder fat gain was tremendous.
Theoretically, an intermediate or advanced lifter needs only 60-120 daily surplus calories, if you math it out.

Practically, it's IMPOSSIBLE to have 100 kcal daily surplus. No way you can track that precisely, because TDEE depends on lot of other factors. Calories will naturally fluctuate up and down a bit. 100 kcal is literally the number within the measurement error.

So trying to be that precise is silly.
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  #6  
Unread 01-31-2018, 12:10 PM
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kyoun1e kyoun1e is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zLeeKo View Post
Theoretically, an intermediate or advanced lifter needs only 60-120 daily surplus calories, if you math it out.

Practically, it's IMPOSSIBLE to have 100 kcal daily surplus. No way you can track that precisely, because TDEE depends on lot of other factors. Calories will naturally fluctuate up and down a bit. 100 kcal is literally the number within the measurement error.

So trying to be that precise is silly.
Understandable.

Maybe that's why I originally thought 300 daily was more reasonable / measureable.
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  #7  
Unread 02-05-2018, 04:42 AM
lostmyoldaccount lostmyoldaccount is offline
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Welp, I'm really tall, early 30s, play basketball 3-4 times a week and lift

and my maintenance is 13/lb, maybe 14 MAX.

I guess I have low t3/leptin/whatever.

Edit: I'm probably just bad at tracking
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Half-way measures don't get very far. You can only do one thing well at a time. Trying to gain muscle while losing fat will result in failure.

Get to 10% bodyfat first while lifting weights heavy 3x a week with reduced volume. Two weeks maintenance. Bulk up slowly (1 lb weight gain per week max), focus on getting stronger, measure body composition changes often.

Last edited by lostmyoldaccount : 02-05-2018 at 05:31 AM.
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Unread 02-05-2018, 07:01 AM
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alcahuetej alcahuetej is offline
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Buy any of the myriad of activity trackers out there and use that to figure out your maintenance.

Preferably one with a heart rate monitor to track your calories while exercising.

They're not accurate, but they're consistent. Which is most likely what your food tracking is as well.

Let me know if you need a recommendation, most are good, some are terrible.
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  #9  
Unread 02-05-2018, 08:02 AM
patriots2 patriots2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcahuetej View Post
Buy any of the myriad of activity trackers out there and use that to figure out your maintenance.

Preferably one with a heart rate monitor to track your calories while exercising.

They're not accurate, but they're consistent. Which is most likely what your food tracking is as well.

Let me know if you need a recommendation, most are good, some are terrible.
Agreed. They are inaccurate but consistent. Consistency and awareness are their best measures - someday they may get precise.

Be careful with HR calories burned. Variability can be large dependent on ones conditioning.
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  #10  
Unread 02-05-2018, 08:13 AM
Twitchy Twitchy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patriots2 View Post
Agreed. They are inaccurate but consistent. Consistency and awareness are their best measures - someday they may get precise.

Be careful with HR calories burned. Variability can be large dependent on ones conditioning.
Yes, my fitbit charge 2 estimates I burn around 3500 calories on average which I know sometimes just flat out isn't true.

If you want to increase the accuracy of it. Take it off doing activities that might calculate you as walking steps, such as brushing your teeth.
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