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  #1  
Unread 01-31-2013, 12:54 PM
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youngbloodz youngbloodz is offline
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Default Changing Training Variables

OK, so I have a question I wanted to throw out to the board. We know that we need a proper training stimulus to induce hypertrophy. This comes from tension on the muscle, a proper rep range, and progressive overload.

Now, I am in no way suggesting that the idea of “muscle confusion” is actually real. I am also not suggesting that just because you are sore the day after you trained that you got a better training stimulus than if you weren’t sore. I am just trying to understand some stuff and see if people smarter than me have answers.

I notice that when I switch up my exercise selection every session or every week that I am much more sore than if I just stayed with the same exercises for 6-8 weeks. Is this a sign of a greater training stimulus, or at least something the body isn’t used to, so the body might be forced to adapt quicker?

As long as you stay within the parameters of tension, proper rep range, and progressive overload, wouldn’t this possibly be a better way of training? Yes, I know that when you change up exercise selection constantly, that it is harder to dial in technique and harder to track results, but it could also avoid overuse injuries that come from the same movement patterns over and over. You could also track strength gains by testing yourself every (fill in the blank) weeks in the main exercises to see if you are actually gaining. Testing like this would also ensure that you aren’t putting more weight on the bar just because your technique got dialed in, it would be because you actually got stronger. I notice that when I bench 3x in a week, by the end of the week I can increase weights just because I feel more comfortable with the motion. I didn’t get that significantly stronger in a week (you see this a lot on transformation sites where lifts skyrocket all of a sudden just because they went from doing nothing to practicing the exercises a ton).

For me, it also makes the training much more interesting. Although I am sure some people want more structure and wouldn’t prefer this.

The same argument could be made for changing up rep ranges or rest times with different training session. One session you stay mostly in the 5-7 range and then the next time you are in the 10-12 or even 12-15 range. One session you take 3 minutes between sets, the next time you take 90 seconds.

What does everyone think about this?
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  #2  
Unread 01-31-2013, 03:59 PM
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muki muki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngbloodz View Post
I notice that when I switch up my exercise selection every session or every week that I am much more sore than if I just stayed with the same exercises for 6-8 weeks. Is this a sign of a greater training stimulus, or at least something the body isn’t used to, so the body might be forced to adapt quicker?
Nope.
It is just a sign that muscle is less affective at removing waste products from worked tissue (compared to muscle worked with repeated movement pattern), thus resulting in delayed muscle soreness.
Nothing to do with hypertrophy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFK25FevjQ
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  #3  
Unread 01-31-2013, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by muki View Post
Nope.
It is just a sign that muscle is less affective at removing waste products from worked tissue (compared to muscle worked with repeated movement pattern), thus resulting in delayed muscle soreness.
Nothing to do with hypertrophy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFK25FevjQ
Waste products do not cause soreness.
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Unread 01-31-2013, 04:14 PM
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I also find that DOMs is more present in "stretch" receptor exercises, at least that's what i'm going to call it. hamstrings for SLDL, bottom of the glutes/magus/biceps femoris for squats, and similarly explains why people love skull crushers and similar extensions - they give you DOM's. But are they actually more effective than a CGBP which gives me no DOMs? The hell if I know.

Well, I've read of people making "maximum" gains with a single program, so I guess it can't me a dealbreaker. I think it's more important to provide progressive overload as you know. My main concern with switching up the exercises is not being able to do that, because i'd probably be spinning my wheels. However like you say, you could rotate a few exercises and that could potentially solve the problem. Another problem is that while some muscle groups may have many great exercises, like triceps, you wouldn't really want to replace bench with flies for example.
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Unread 01-31-2013, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lylemcd View Post
Waste products do not cause soreness.
As always, I should've done more searching. So the DOMS is related to connective tissue damage. Why would a different repetition range or less rest cause more connective tissue damage though?

Unk: The stretching component that causes soreness is almost certainly related to the connective tissue that Lyle talks about. I must ask though, why would you spin your wheels if you were changing your exercises up more? As long as you are adding weight to the bar or reps every time you get around to that exercise again, you are following the principles of progressive overload. One important thing that Blade talks about a lot is that growth isn't an on/off switch. Even if you don't hit a new PR every time, you can still get 80-95% effectiveness out of the exercise as long as it is done correctly. This will add up over time and you will hit new PRs, assuming diet and other recovery variables are in check.

There also isn't a need to replace a bench press with flyes. You could do a compound press, like floor presses instead, and then follow it up with an isolation movement (like flyes) which is suggested in the GBR. You could do inc bench and then dips. There are so many ways to tackle it.
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Unread 01-31-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngbloodz View Post
As always, I should've done more searching. So the DOMS is related to connective tissue damage. Why would a different repetition range or less rest cause more connective tissue damage though?

Unk: The stretching component that causes soreness is almost certainly related to the connective tissue that Lyle talks about. I must ask though, why would you spin your wheels if you were changing your exercises up more? As long as you are adding weight to the bar or reps every time you get around to that exercise again, you are following the principles of progressive overload. One important thing that Blade talks about a lot is that growth isn't an on/off switch. Even if you don't hit a new PR every time, you can still get 80-95% effectiveness out of the exercise as long as it is done correctly. This will add up over time and you will hit new PRs, assuming diet and other recovery variables are in check.

There also isn't a need to replace a bench press with flyes. You could do a compound press, like floor presses instead, and then follow it up with an isolation movement (like flyes) which is suggested in the GBR. You could do inc bench and then dips. There are so many ways to tackle it.
This is all true. Well let's say I hit skullcrushers every 3 weeks, and two other tri exercises the weeks before that. Optimistically, lets say my triceps have gained such strength in those 3 weeks that I "outgrow" my skullcrusher rep scheme. Hahaha i'm just nitpicking. I don't know man, it's an impossible question to search elsewhere because it's a wordy one right, and It's not for me to trial it right now, I am getting back into it all from a year off from an injury, so the basics are my mainstay right now. Though, I definitely believe in finding the exercises which you feel give YOU the best workout, regardless of DOMS.
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Unread 02-01-2013, 06:17 AM
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mrlakramondas mrlakramondas is offline
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Quote:
I notice that when I switch up my exercise selection every session or every week that I am much more sore than if I just stayed with the same exercises for 6-8 weeks. Is this a sign of a greater training stimulus, or at least something the body isn’t used to, so the body might be forced to adapt quicker?
You can't really take it as a sign of anything other than you being sore. This is very common, you do something different (change exercises, rep range etc) and you get sore. Some love the feeling, others hate it. It does not equal growth. And be careful of changing too many variables too frequently.
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  #8  
Unread 02-14-2013, 04:32 PM
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Here you go youngbloodz, exactly what you were asking:

http://www.simplyshredded.com/a-load...ybuilding.html


It basically involves having 3 exercises on a rotation for each muscle group, you do one set per muscle group per workout (though it kind of isn't one set because you go to failure (~8 reps), rest very shortly, then go to failure (~4 reps), failure again (~2 reps), equating to 11-15 rep set), but the primary objective is to add weight or reps every single workout, otherwise you have to drop the exercise and pick a new one to improve on.

Give it a read, it's exactly the exercise rotation you were querying. Though I believe it's for the bordering advanced trainee.
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