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  #1  
Unread 08-23-2009, 04:12 PM
jdbr jdbr is offline
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Default Refeed and # of Carbs.

I know it's LBM x 1.5 - 3g carbs. I've always seen it said that you should just eat what you can get away with. What exactly does that mean? How do I know if 2g per pound is better for me than 3g per pound? I've tried 1.5 and the highest I've hit has been 2.5.

What are some signs that I'm eating too many carbs on the refeed? My recent refeed had me eating 2.5g carbs per pound and I gained about 3lbs the next day. I know that's mostly water though as I actually kept fat under 20g and my calories were just maintenance. Another question, is most of this water gain stored in muscle or fat? Just curious. Thanks.
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  #2  
Unread 08-23-2009, 04:21 PM
mikaelj mikaelj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbr View Post
Another question, is most of this water gain stored in muscle or fat?
Each gram of carbohydrate binds about 2-3g of water when turned into muscle glycogen. There is some water in your fat cells, but when your muscles are depleted, almost all of the carbs you have goes to replenishing your muscle glycogen stores. Since you had very little fat, and not too much carbs (i.e. not contributing greatly to DNL), it probably did go into your muscles.

You'll know for sure in a few days if you drop what you gained in your refeed.
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  #3  
Unread 08-23-2009, 04:35 PM
quickone quickone is offline
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1) Start on the low end of recommendations. Push it as high as you can without gaining fat.

2) A weight gain of several pounds over the 2-3 days after a refeed is normal and represents an increase in glycogen storage/water.

3) Stick to high carb/low fat, low sugar foods - mostly starches. That said the shorter the refeed (sounds like yours is 5 hours) the more you can get away with in terms of fructose/sucrose. Most will find starches with a little 'junk' to work best.
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  #4  
Unread 08-23-2009, 04:45 PM
jdbr jdbr is offline
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Originally Posted by mikaelj View Post
Each gram of carbohydrate binds about 2-3g of water when turned into muscle glycogen. There is some water in your fat cells, but when your muscles are depleted, almost all of the carbs you have goes to replenishing your muscle glycogen stores. Since you had very little fat, and not too much carbs (i.e. not contributing greatly to DNL), it probably did go into your muscles.

You'll know for sure in a few days if you drop what you gained in your refeed.
That sounds good. I wish I felt fuller in my muscles though. Still feel kind of flat even after 400g carbs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quickone View Post
1) Start on the low end of recommendations. Push it as high as you can without gaining fat.

2) A weight gain of several pounds over the 2-3 days after a refeed is normal and represents an increase in glycogen storage/water.

3) Stick to high carb/low fat, low sugar foods - mostly starches. That said the shorter the refeed (sounds like yours is 5 hours) the more you can get away with in terms of fructose/sucrose. Most will find starches with a little 'junk' to work best.
I started on the low end the first few times and my weight actually went DOWN after the refeed which I hadn't seen anyone else experience. The thing is, how do I know if I'm pushing too far and gaining fat? I can't depend on the scale since if the water retention is also taking place in muscle it throws everything off. I'm guessing I should just look in the mirror? Even then I tend to get all flabby looking when I eat carb heavy meals. This is kind of my dilemma right now(albeit a minor one).

As for 2) that's good to hear. My last refeed I also went up 3 pounds and then dropped it after the next few days but this refeed had about 100g more carbs so I trying to figure out how to know if I pushed it too far.

As for 3) I've been trying bread the last few times. I tried pasta once but that was way too filling. The same happened with italian bread so I tried regular white wonder bread the last two times. I have a little bit of fat free ice cream as a treat though but besides that not too much junk.
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  #5  
Unread 08-23-2009, 04:48 PM
quickone quickone is offline
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Quote:
I started on the low end the first few times and my weight actually went DOWN after the refeed which I hadn't seen anyone else experience. The thing is, how do I know if I'm pushing too far and gaining fat? I can't depend on the scale since if the water retention is also taking place in muscle it throws everything off. I'm guessing I should just look in the mirror? Even then I tend to get all flabby looking when I eat carb heavy meals. This is kind of my dilemma right now(albeit a minor one).
Read the whoosh sticky.

Quote:
As for 2) that's good to hear. My last refeed I also went up 3 pounds and then dropped it after the next few days but this refeed had about 100g more carbs so I trying to figure out how to know if I pushed it too far.
That sounds fine.

Quote:

As for 3) I've been trying bread the last few times. I tried pasta once but that was way too filling. The same happened with italian bread so I tried regular white wonder bread the last two times. I have a little bit of fat free ice cream as a treat though but besides that not too much junk.
Ben & Jerry's FroYo FTW.
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  #6  
Unread 08-23-2009, 05:18 PM
jdbr jdbr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quickone View Post
Read the whoosh sticky.



That sounds fine.



Ben & Jerry's FroYo FTW.
I know about the whole whoosh thing. I've experienced it a few times in the last few weeks. As I said before, I'm just trying to find some indicators that maybe I've pushed the carbs up too high. I can't rely on weight gain since this is normal on refeeds and I expect for the 'whoosh' to come in a few days.

About the Ben & Jerry's, I absolutely love ice cream, but I absolutely hate yogurt. So the question is, will I like frozen yogurt?
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  #7  
Unread 08-23-2009, 05:34 PM
jordanbcool jordanbcool is offline
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You'll love frozen yogurt if you like ice cream its basically the same exact thing.

You'll know if you've eaten too many carbs if you look fatter then the night before. You will gain obvious weight on a refeed but all in all it works to make you look better if done right. You're muscles should be full and bigger then the night before from glycogen uptake. Also refeed's tend to draw water from surrounding tissue into the muscle making them that much bigger and making you look leaner.

This all assumes that you're doing it right, and have been depleted for a couple days/weeks.

**Re read your original post again and it seems you did it exactly right. Keep using the 2.5g/lb and the 3lb weight gain is from water and glycogen being stored in the muscle. Both of those are good things.
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"I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)

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Last edited by jordanbcool : 08-23-2009 at 05:38 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 08-23-2009, 05:40 PM
jordanbcool jordanbcool is offline
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For the record, you don't get a whoosh on refeeds at all. Eating carbs doesn't rid you of water in any way. It simply takes it from surrounding tissue's and shoves then into your muscles which is a great thing. Thats where the weight gain is coming from. Your muscles are just full of water and glycogen.
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"I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)

"Every day above ground is a good day"
-Frank (Scarface)

5'8 14% 181lbs

Back to basics...

Last edited by jordanbcool : 08-23-2009 at 05:42 PM.
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  #9  
Unread 08-23-2009, 05:50 PM
jdbr jdbr is offline
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You know, I think that I always look like crap after a refeed. I always feel fat as I'm finishing one. It's not as bad the next day but I definitely don't feel great. Could this also be because I drink a lot of water during a refeed? I've seen some people on here talk about doing dry refeeds and looking great after that. I can't imagine doing that though as I'm always thirsty as hell when doing a refeed.

Can't wait to try some frozen yogurt now.
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  #10  
Unread 08-23-2009, 08:45 PM
jordanbcool jordanbcool is offline
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I don't know why you would do a dry refeed. I guess you could if you wanted to look really lean. But that sounds like something a competing bodybuilder would do. I'd suggest you drink the same amount of water you normally drink. Theres no reason not to drink water or drink a very small amount because at best it has a marginal benefit.

You may feel like crap. I often did because my body wasn't used to the carbs and I would be sitting on the toilet a couple times the next day. You SHOULD look better though. If you look fatter then you need to look at the types of carbohydrates and amounts you're eating. Sometimes people bloat up on different foods for little apparent reason.

I also have little experience with 5 hour refeeds. I have done the UD2 style ones though which are much much larger and longer.
__________________
"I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again." - Achilles, (Troy 2004)

"Every day above ground is a good day"
-Frank (Scarface)

5'8 14% 181lbs

Back to basics...
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